Am I selling myself short?

[Alex S]

Thanks everyone, plenty of food for thought. I currently rent a place with my girlfriend so living costs are higher than if I was still living with parents. My little astravan sometimes gets used for small jobs/carrying tools as well, yet another thing to factor in...

[gensetsteve]

You would get more catching the bus to Asda and stacking shelves in the warm and dry. You could work your way up to manager on 50-100k. While people are prepared to work hard risking their necks and wearing out their own kit others will be prepared to let them. I know I am in a different trade but I charge more than that to travel 50 miles ea way.

[WorcsWuss]

It always amazes me how little some people charge....

Do you know what your baseline living costs are....?

Rent / mortgage, income tax, ni, council tax, food, transport, phone, insurance, presents, holidays, clothes, takeaways, pub.... There's a grand a month easy in this day and age.

Then all your work costs on top of that.

So you may well be scraping by at the moment, but what about when you're off sick, or work dries up....?

[Beezy]

Agree with the above.

 

Have you ever actually sat down and worked out how much its all costing you, I mean eveything, how much you literally have to earn to pay for it all and live?

 

Sit down, list it all!

 

PPE,

Tools,

Equipment,

Insurances, expenses (fuel, repairs etc),

Depreciation on big kit: saws, climbing kit etc

(usually over 3-5 years, divide the cost of replacing kit over this time)

Tax/NI (as a subby you pay this)

 

 

I would then divide the total by about 215 - 225 which equates to the days work per year on a 5 day working week (Takes into account avg 20 days holidays, weekends, public hols, sick) etc etc

 

That is your (very) rough working day rate.... i did it and scared myself!

 

Also factor in:

Rent/mortgage

Living costs (average food bills, mobile phone tariff)

Social (drink, going out)

 

Just my opinion, but a good guide. I'm sure there's other stuff i've forgotten too!

I would have a chat with your boss, go equipped with knowledge, rather than just wandering up and asking for more.

Good luck.

[Rupe]

This is yet another case of someone who thinks they are a "subby" but is actually being shafted by an employer that doesnt want to employ anyone.

 

Five days a week for the same person is NOT self employment, your boss should take you on with an employment contract.

 

Self employment means that you get your work from wherever you choose and you choose the rates. So if you have 5 companies that you work for you might choose to charge one more than others, or if one gives you better/more work then you might charge them less. And if you put your price up with one company a bit too much and they stop using you then at least you have all the others.

 

Self employment means it is you setting the rates, but you also have some "risk" for your future income if you mess anybody around or try and charge too much.

 

Workign for one person 5 days a week is not right. If you put your prices up and he says no thanks and gets someone else then your screwed, the next guy he gets at £60 a day is screwed and so it goes on. the only person benefitting is the guy your working for and employment law says he is not allowed to benefit from others in that way, its immoral and plain wrong. But our indusrty seems to be more interested in who insured, or whos done a risk assessment or who got loler when in fact the industry is wrotten at it core due so many keen lads who think they are getting somewhere by this kind of employment.

 

 

IMO a self employed climber (ro groundie for that matter) needs 5years of experience full time with a company and be so good at their job that they can get work anywhere, and so they go self employed and see what they can earn. A much better description is freelance, your free to go and work wherever you choose.

 

And everyone wants to be a climber? Whats that all about? Groundies, I agree, are worth more.

[burrell_]

think u need to start looking about calling other firms see if they have any work

landscapers may be a good starting place i do a fair bit of climbing for landscapers

u dont want to mess the bloke about that u already work for as he pays ur bills

u need to find other work as well

putting all ur eggs in 1 basket is never a good idea (works for some)

not saying ur boss will but if his work slows / ent there the subbys are the first out the door

 

being self employed is a hard game and u need to think more about ur self

[Alex S]

Yes, I could stack shelves in Asda but I'd hate my life, go insane, and murder all my colleagues! I love tree work and maybe that's why in the beginning I was willing to take anything I could get and be paid a pittance for it.

And yes it amazes me too how little I charge (I used to charge £25 per hour teaching kids to skate!) but my living costs aren't too high - my flat is an absolute bargain to rent, which is lucky.

[hazzygawa]

Good thread

[WorcsWuss]

What Rupe says, and Burrell.

Strictly speaking working for him full time self employed makes him liable for paying your ni and tax.

If this is an arrangement he's had for a while then it's a wonder the revenue haven't looked into his firm already....

[Hodge]

The guy is taking the mick man, £60 as a subbie?? Which you are not. I would confront him about it.