Different cuts for different butts!

[Pan]

Hi all - new to this forum and new to milling. I have followed this forum for sometime with interest and thought its about time I joined in.

 

Being a tree surgeon I have good access to lots of different timber and being a keen woodworker have some knowledge with regards to the different properties of wood. I have decided to get into milling in order to utilise my available timber more effectivley. Locally I see so much good timber being wasted for the firewood craze - it breaks my heart!

 

I understand the processes of obtaining tangential boards from plain cuts (through & through). I also understand the process of quarter sawing to produce the more stable radial boards. But are there many variations of the above cuts that suit different species of timber ?

 

Do many of you quarter saw other species than just Oak to bring out the beautiful medullary rays as well as gaining the extra stability ?

 

Do many of you semi quarter saw or produce one square edge timber ie put a breaking cut through the pith of the log and then tangentially saw at right angles to the breaking cut ?

 

What is the best way to saw burrs to reveal there hidden beauty ?

 

How would you saw fruit wood as opposed to say a Yew tree ?

 

Perhaps all of the above is too much hassle and its better to plain saw everything and easier to sticker and stack ?

 

Lots of questions I know, but surely different species have there best features enhanced by choosing the most appropriate cut. Even the most featureless of woods must show different characteristics according to how they are sawn.

 

So come on you expert millers! - can you share some of your secrets to a keen novice who just wants to get the best out of their timber - what are your thought processes when faced with different timbers and how do you get the best out of yours ?

[Rob D]

Welcome Pan! Some good questions - and really too many to answer and all tricky to answer anyway because most rules are rules of thumb. But I have found:

 

 

• I'm now quarter sawing for stability - although that said still get through sawn elm (from Big J on here) as I find it more stable to dry.
  
• Through saw your very burry timber on one face and then you rotate the log taking through sawn faces of each side depending on how the burrs look... I've just learnt this! Called boxing the heart...
  
• Beech has some nice rays in quarter sawn, plane even better.
  
• Fruit wood - would prob just quarter saw - but that's because I sell a lot of boards and find a waney edge one side sells best and quarter sawn more stable.
  
• I quarter saw straight large logs but knotty ones tend to see how I feel and how it looks.
  
• A nice tight crotch (steady! ) through saw to get nice figuring...
  

 

 

 

 

Don't worry too much how you saw some logs - if you're not sure how to saw a certain log there's prob no best method!

 

 

I'm doing a lot more quarter sawing now for stability, lighter boards to move around, easier to plane, better product at the end of it.

 

 

 

Smaller logs I still through saw though...

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Pan]

Hi Rob

Thanks for reply - interesting to hear how you saw different species, especially how you deal with burr timber. I guess it makes sense when you think about the fact that the best burr will be on the outer layers of a tree.

 

I had hoped that this thread would of created a bit more interest in the milling forum - was it something I said? I guess the rest of the 'Top Dogs' wish to keep their secrets and not pass them onto 'Bottom Sawyers' ! Silly me always thought that was the idea of a forum - exchange of ideas etc.

[agg221]

I wouldn't take it as anything personal. There aren't that many people on here who mill, and most who do are only doing it on an occasional basis so there's probably not that much experience to draw on. The other point is that not that many species are saleable, and plain, clear, narrow (up to 8in or so) boards are made much more easily in a commercial mill.

 

This leads to a lot of what's discussed on here being either what came to hand, through and through sawn for convenience, or very wide slabs for table tops etc. which is something big commercial mills often can't handle. Again, these are usually slab sawn through and through.

 

Personally, I've tended to either saw oak for construction (boat or house) with the odd bit of other stuff that turned up. Cherry doesn't seem to show much advantage based on how you saw it and also seems to cope with being through and through sawn surprisingly well, which is handy for getting more wide boards. Holly has nothing to show however you cut it, but is very white for detailing inlays/stringing.

 

As Rob says, plane is worth quartering, known as lacewood and quite a spectacular effect but rather overpowering in large areas.

 

Alec

[ucoulddoit]

Hi Pan

 

Another method of milling which I've rarely seen done, but may be of interest to you and others, is cutting across a log rather than along its length. Of course if you cut straight across, the round disk will almost inevitably split as it dries. But if the cut is at an angle of say 30 degrees (or more), it produces an elliptical shape which is much more resistant to splitting. Might be a suitable way of using logs which are too short for milling into planks, but it really needs a log with plenty of character such as burring or spalted to work well. The burr elm table top in the picture below was bought as an air dried slab 4 inches thick which I then stored in the house for a year until its moisture content had reduced to about 8% after which I reduced the thickness to about 2 1/2 inches to level out the drying distortion. It is almost 4 feet long from a 2 foot diameter log.

 

Andrew

[agg221]

Thanks Andrew - interesting image.

 

The technique was popular on small logs in the mid to late 17th century, making veneer-type discs known as oysters. These were typically 3mm thick, then laid onto a very stable oak base. I have a huge pile of these I inherited from a cabinetmaker, with no idea what do to with them! Not seen it done on a big scale like that.

 

Alec

[Rob D]

I had hoped that this thread would of created a bit more interest in the milling forum - was it something I said? I guess the rest of the 'Top Dogs' wish to keep their secrets and not pass them onto 'Bottom Sawyers' ! Silly me always thought that was the idea of a forum - exchange of ideas etc.

 

 

As said by Alec - don't take lack of interest in a thread personally... I have plenty of threads with no replies... it's not to do with keeping secrets - milling timber is still behind compared to the US and so most people are still getting into just sawing wood through and through... 2 years ago i would not have known what quarter sawing was!

 

 

One thing with threads is that you can make it too broad and sometimes this puts people off replying... we all are on arbtalk posting away for an hour or more at a time yet with a stack of paperwork on the desk next to the computer not being done! It's a quick fix with bite size portions being handed around and there's not many that like long posts!

 

 

As it happens ref sawing burr it was another member on here who put me onto that - Big J.... collaborated by another member Watkin!

[Rob D]

Hi Pan

 

Another method of milling which I've rarely seen done, but may be of interest to you and others, is cutting across a log rather than along its length. Of course if you cut straight across, the round disk will almost inevitably split as it dries. But if the cut is at an angle of say 30 degrees (or more), it produces an elliptical shape which is much more resistant to splitting. Might be a suitable way of using logs which are too short for milling into planks, but it really needs a log with plenty of character such as burring or spalted to work well. The burr elm table top in the picture below was bought as an air dried slab 4 inches thick which I then stored in the house for a year until its moisture content had reduced to about 8% after which I reduced the thickness to about 2 1/2 inches to level out the drying distortion. It is almost 4 feet long from a 2 foot diameter log.

 

Andrew

 

 

 

It's a great idea and gets a waney edge round the outside... Have tried this a bit on smaller logs but really I should be doing on larger logs... will try again as customers are always looking for the waney edge all round rather than a flat edge at each end!

[Pan]

Hello all

 

Nothing taken personally! Just keen to learn from others who know more than me.

 

Andrew - Lovely table! I've never thought of cutting a slab like that on that scale. I've made a few house signs before - similar process but never thought table top size I will give it a go.

 

Alec - The oysters you refer to I think were originally made from Laburnum. I once tried making these and dried them in a box sandwiched between layers of sand - everyone split! perhaps I hadn't cut them at a steep enough angle?

 

Rob - Point taken I will try to be more specific and keep things brief - Oops typing out a long reply again!

 

Jonathan - Keen to hear how you you got on 1/4 sawing today. When you halve your longer logs with the chainsaw mill to take out the pith do you do this by eye? Or do you measure down from each end to ensure you follow the line?

[Pan]

Hi Jonathan

 

Wow! there are some lovely looking rays in those oak planks.

 

I need to ask your advice on something - I've got a small stack of different timbers to start myself off milling but I'm not bringing much back from my tree work these days as everyone wants to keeep the wood for logs. So I'm thinking of approaching a few local forestry contractors to see if I can buy some sawlogs off them. I've never purchased timber in the round before so I haven't got a clue about how much it's worth.

 

I know the price will be very variable based on quality but could you or anyone else give me a rough guide on the price of different species of sawlogs in the round (rideside). I want to be able to offer a fair price at the same time as not being ripped off!

 

I guess I'm mainly interested in Oak, Ash, Sycamore, Cherry and possibly Walnut. What are these worth per hoppus or cubic foot for an average quality sawlog?