Tree Survey Qualifactions??

[Bundle 2]

" You don't always need fully qualified and experienced arbs to inspect trees. The courts have shown that they are happy (in some circumstances) to discharge the duty of care on the basis of a layman / basic opinion.... "

 

Kind of think that the standards are aware of this in that it seems to be reflected in the stance they take with this aspect of the industries practice.

Having said that, it seems fairly clear that in certain circumstances, an inspection will need to be " escalated "...but that this mechanism is designed to reach a conclusion...and this also is I think acknowledged by the standards.

 

"Now, I'm not saying that applies to all circumstances but that's kind of where we're going with some recent cases and the Lantra Basic tree inspection course (note a course not a qual)... "

 

Care to elaborate on this mate?

 

" we manage is such a small piece of the pie....."

" There aren't enough of us. "

 

There would seem to be an interesting issue here abouts.....

[Amelanchier]

Well - what I'm getting at is this. There are a lot of trees - there aren't very many qualified and experienced Arbs (comparatively speaking). The risk presented by the tree population is low. So its no great problem to have Barry the gardener having a wander round your trees once a year. It's simply sustainable management.

 

If he spots something odd - he can give an Arb a ring (escalation, as you say). That way, his boss has the money to pay for tree work instead of paying for paperwork. Maybe he could afford to plant more trees as well?? (yeah I know I'm talking my way out of work!)

 

Obviously there are situations that are different where the risks and hazards are greater and I wouldn't dispute the need for proper inspections - it has to be proportional.

 

Thats where the Basic Lantra course comes in. It tells Barry when to give an Arb a ring.

[Bundle 2]

" If he spots something odd - he can give an Arb a ring "

 

Sorry but I do not consider this to be an inspection...or an assessment...and barely does it constitute a survey and to add insult to injury, he has no recognised qualification.....none of which is a problem though as there has been no arboricultural involvement perhaps.....however this would satisfy owner/occ lia act 1957/84

What doesnt ring true...

 

" That way, his boss has the money to pay for tree work instead of paying for paperwork..."

 

Has he not just paid to have Barry trained in something that he has no formal qualification in, and as a result...and again, to add insult to injury, he is in no position to do anything about anyway except call in an arb, costing his boss more money.....

So we f***up, the law is changed to raise the bar of professional standards but instead, the trainers devise quals that are not aimed at arbs and rake whatever profit seems right as a consequence and all in the name of the law...beam me up scotty, I think Im about to get whooped!!

Edited January 17, 2009 by Bundle 2

[Amelanchier]

" If he spots something odd - he can give an Arb a ring "

 

Sorry but I do not consider this to be an inspection...or an assessment...and barely does it constitute a survey and to add insult to injury, he has no recognised qualification.....none of which is a problem though as there has been no arboricultural involvement perhaps.....however this would satisfy owner/occ lia act 1957/84

What doesnt ring true...

 

" That way, his boss has the money to pay for tree work instead of paying for paperwork..."

 

Has he not just paid to have Barry trained in something that he has no formal qualification in, and as a result...and again, to add insult to injury, he is in no position to do anything about anyway except call in an arb, costing his boss more money.....

 

I think yours is a common reaction but lets have a think at what Barry could spot that he could deal with with CS 30/31, a little McCulloch, a step ladder/handsaw and a polesaw.

 

Small dead trees? Small leaning / suppressed trees? Low dead wood? Crown lifts? Hangers? Split limbs? Vehicle impact damage?

 

Thats usually about 50% of my surveys. If Barry got on with that, we could leave the other stuff to the Arbs. Why are we so protective about tree work?

 

 

So we f***up, the law is changed to raise the bar of professional standards but instead, the trainers devise quals that are not aimed at arbs and rake whatever profit seems right as a consequence and all in the name of the law...beam me up scotty, I think Im about to get whooped!!

 

We need people like Barry looking at trees, that my point. Not only that - but we need to accept that in the vast majority of cases - Barry gets asked to do it anyway regardless of your Quals or mine. So lets train him.

[Bundle 2]

" Barry gets asked to do it anyway regardless of your Quals or mine. "

 

So do we need quals atall...?

 

Especially as we have just trained Baz to some unrecognized level that is neither arb nor gardener.....

edit

Note...." ...none of which is a problem though..."

[David oakman]

Tony is spot on with his comments. I think you will find that any landowner or land agent can check his own tree stock and he can get any of his employees to check trees, when they spot a fault or see fruiting bodies then they call in arb inspector to look at things like tree health vigour of leaves twig growth look for wounds are they sealing over and maybe a picus then in comes the tree sugeon to do the work. Ido not think there are many estates in this country that does not use this system or similar and this is about all they could afford IMO.

[David oakman]

Sorry to join in on this thread you two seem to have something going on:001_smile:

[David Humphries]

As a relatively large urban site with high public access, we have had 30 odd of our Barrys put through the Lantra Basic tree inspection course.

 

These guys and gals, are our eyes and ears on sites outside our Tree Risk Zones and post storm events.

 

The recorded surveys and inspections are carried out mainly by internal (very occasionally external) competent* Arborists, holding (as proscribed by our local Tree Risk Policy) a minimum PTI or equivalent.

 

 

 

 

*competent person

person (e.g. an arboriculturist) who has training and experience relevant to the matter

being addressed and can demonstrate competence to undertake systematic expert tree

inspection, in order to identify and recommend remediation for hazards arising from

impaired structural integrity in trees

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

It's amazing how many people we have that are all called Barry, uncanny.

 

 

 

.

[Bundle 2]

" Sorry to join in on this thread you two seem to have something going on..."

 

Not atall man...its a forum afterall eh!

 

"regardless of your Quals or mine...."

 

Who told you I had qualifications...!!! Its all lies man.........

[Bundle 2]

" The recorded surveys and inspections are carried out mainly by internal (very occasionally external) competent* Arborists, holding (as proscribed by our local Tree Risk Policy) a minimum PTI or equivalent...."

 

Thank you for opening the arena or scope perhaps of what we are talking about.....