Potential ANCIENT tree removal

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Good pictures of a very nice tree Tony

 

As for the similarity with the tree that Ross is dealing with I'm afraid the only similarity is the species

The target potential Ross is/was dealing with is every arbs nightmare, 360 degrees worth of total destruction.

From an insurance and arboricultural perspective the tree you display pails into insignificance.

 

My eyesight is not doing me justice this eve Tony because I fail to see any pictures of Gano, felling, your presence etc, perhaps these are pics you gleaned off the net today?

I'm sorry but I dont quite get what your trying to say

 

Best wishes

Jonny

 

Yes your right of course they could have been from anywhere, must try harder!

 

as for failing to see gano in those images, really?

 

Its within falling range of a public footpath a small low traffic road a private drive and more than capable of killing humans, and its retained thats the point, and you MUST see that surely!

[Ross Smith]

I like your work tony

I really do

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I like your work tony

I really do

 

Thanks mate, not really what I was getting at or hoping for though!

 

This issue of fear in retaining trees with decay is probably the biggest one in arb today IMO, and why the National tree safety group ( http://www.ntsg.org.uk/ ) got together and released information to help.

 

We have to do more, all of us, we are at the front line, were the first people that are called to sort these trees out. There is nothing wrong with asking for help, members of the ATF (ancient tree forum) are willing to help with trees of special interest like the one your working, you just need to know that, as does everyone.

[Mark Bolam]

does it look butt ugly Mark?

 

[ATTACH]105748[/ATTACH]

 

To be fair Tone, no.

 

Nice work.

[JonnyVine]

Tony

Swithcing to a computer as opposed to iphone ( possibly the Chateau neuf du pappe could also have had an influence) the Gano brackets are now obvious in pic2.

 

I am surprised that you continue to compare all the pictures you have posted to Ross's.

The MAIN road, the layby (static target), the pavement (on a busy road), the list is endless, but the main difference is the type of decay you are trying to assimilate here, Gano V Kretz!

 

I have lost count how many trees I have retained over The last 20 years that have unfortunately been colonised with a Ganoderma, including Fagus. Even a moderately healthy Fagus can outproduce (adaptive growth) what the majority of Ganderma species can consume.

 

Kretzschmaria Deusta is a completely different can of worms, due to the type of decay, it is very difficult to determine the extent of the decay, the type of rot produced is also completely different and the effect of the breakage if it does let go is much more severe.

 

K. deusta behaves in two different ways, 1, when a surface wound has been colonised but the decay dosent penetrate too deep (more commonly with trees that form a true heartwood)

and 2, when the fungus has colonised the internal dysfunctional tissues of a species of tree that doesn't form heart wood ( ie age altered wood ro ripewood) as per Fagus.

 

Unfortunately, what we do when we remove huge amounts of healthy tree (which you quite rightly prescribed a reduction of TWO THIRDS) is to remove photo-synthate material that the tree now desperately needs to defend itself and produce reaction-wood to maintain a "uniform stress", to compound this disability, more dysfunctional wood is created adding to the volume of wood available for colonisation by this fungus!

We can not rely on epicormic regeneration to supply the defecit in Glucose either, epicormic sprouts have considerably less photo-synthesizing ability than normal healthy new shoots.

 

The exposed nature of the tree (Ross's), is also a major issue to consider when retaining trees of this size, the house which could be argued is sheltering the tree in one direction could create turbulance that could possily DOUBLE the windspeed under certain circumstances.

 

I truly feel for the TO that had to make the decision to fell this tree, invariably people that choose a career in arboriculture do so because they care about trees and having to commit this tree can not hve been an easy decision, just the same as the poor souls having to remove it must have felt making the first cut (as Arbs, we are all aware that the more you remove the easier it emotionaly gets)

 

Incidentaly, the pic you posted with the work done looked good to me, very well balanced reduction I would say, however, if you look back through this thread, you will see that I never made any reference doubting your ability as a tree surgeon!

 

Good luck to Ross with the rest of the reduction

 

Kind regards

Jonny

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Tony

Swithcing to a computer as opposed to iphone ( possibly the Chateau neuf du pappe could also have had an influence) the Gano brackets are now obvious in pic2.

 

I am surprised that you continue to compare all the pictures you have posted to Ross's.

The MAIN road, the layby (static target), the pavement (on a busy road), the list is endless, but the main difference is the type of decay you are trying to assimilate here, Gano V Kretz!

 

I have lost count how many trees I have retained over The last 20 years that have unfortunately been colonised with a Ganoderma, including Fagus. Even a moderately healthy Fagus can outproduce (adaptive growth) what the majority of Ganderma species can consume.

 

Kretzschmaria Deusta is a completely different can of worms, due to the type of decay, it is very difficult to determine the extent of the decay, the type of rot produced is also completely different and the effect of the breakage if it does let go is much more severe.

 

K. deusta behaves in two different ways, 1, when a surface wound has been colonised but the decay dosent penetrate too deep (more commonly with trees that form a true heartwood)

and 2, when the fungus has colonised the internal dysfunctional tissues of a species of tree that doesn't form heart wood ( ie age altered wood ro ripewood) as per Fagus.

 

Unfortunately, what we do when we remove huge amounts of healthy tree (which you quite rightly prescribed a reduction of TWO THIRDS) is to remove photo-synthate material that the tree now desperately needs to defend itself and produce reaction-wood to maintain a "uniform stress", to compound this disability, more dysfunctional wood is created adding to the volume of wood available for colonisation by this fungus!

We can not rely on epicormic regeneration to supply the defecit in Glucose either, epicormic sprouts have considerably less photo-synthesizing ability than normal healthy new shoots.

 

The exposed nature of the tree (Ross's), is also a major issue to consider when retaining trees of this size, the house which could be argued is sheltering the tree in one direction could create turbulance that could possily DOUBLE the windspeed under certain circumstances.

 

I truly feel for the TO that had to make the decision to fell this tree, invariably people that choose a career in arboriculture do so because they care about trees and having to commit this tree can not hve been an easy decision, just the same as the poor souls having to remove it must have felt making the first cut (as Arbs, we are all aware that the more you remove the easier it emotionaly gets)

 

Incidentaly, the pic you posted with the work done looked good to me, very well balanced reduction I would say, however, if you look back through this thread, you will see that I never made any reference doubting your ability as a tree surgeon!

 

Good luck to Ross with the rest of the reduction

 

Kind regards

Jonny

 

I accept the limitations on my input exposed, and shall retreat with my head in shame for my appalling lack of relevance to this particular case.

 

I wont accept the deathly spiral scenario suggested by a reduction however, no one has EVER done a study into the real effects of reduction on trees and certainly not one that accounts for the variables, or the undeniable truth that is offered in the vastly different reaction of trees in the working scenario. albeit that side is anecdotal.

 

also the argument of the axiom of uniform stress being impaired is inherently flawed as for some years decades in fact the stress imposed on the structure is hugley reduced, as is the energy required to maintain it that is a large point and contribution to the reduction theory, reduction of MECHANICAL loading!

[JonnyVine]

Tony

I would leave it there my friend!

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Tony

I would leave it there my friend!

 

that suggests you have some info that would make a fool of my previous comment, bring it on I say, seems were all about to have a lesson that can only be a positive.

[JonnyVine]

that suggests you have some info that would make a fool of my previous comment, bring it on I say, seems were all about to have a lesson that can only be a positive.

 

 

Absolutely

The names of those that have conducted thousands of hours of extensive research that you so vehemently contest? include, Dr Alex Shigo, Dr David Lonsdale, Dr Claus Mattheck, Dr Helge Breloer, R.G Strouts, T.G Winter, Neviile Fray ( I personaly attended his award and conferance dinner for continued services to Arboriculture) David Dowson, Charles Maynors, N.D.G. James, R.B. Allison, again the list is endless.

 

Some 4-5 months ago, you stated on this very forum that you were in the process of writing a book that would blow away all the theories of world renowned authors, REMBER?

 

The World still awaits this Revelation! Where is this elusive publication?

[Albedo]

Good effort jonny ...but allas....you will find that the only way to win a debate with Tony is to glue his picture to your off button.

 

I had done this by Oct 2009 and found it effective. Then I got to quite like him...you get used to it all after a while:001_smile: