Climate change- discuss

[WorcsWuss]

According to the results I found for 09 in the Guardian [not a paper I normall read but they seem to care deeply about factual accuracy on this stuff...] we produced a touch less than Canada but with twice the population. 520m tonnes of carbon out of a global total of 30,400m tonnes, so 10th in the list at 1.7%. Which as the 8th largest global economy, with the 22nd largest population [62m against China's 1.4Bn] doesn't really seem too bad.

Additionally our output has been reducing every year, while China's, India's etc have been increasing....

It seems the more we do to combat climate change at home, the less significant we become on the world stage....

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

According to the results I found for 09 in the Guardian [not a paper I normall read but they seem to care deeply about factual accuracy on this stuff...] we produced a touch less than Canada but with twice the population. 520m tonnes of carbon out of a global total of 30,400m tonnes, so 10th in the list at 1.7%. Which as the 8th largest global economy, with the 22nd largest population [62m against China's 1.4Bn] doesn't really seem too bad.

Additionally our output has been reducing every year, while China's, India's etc have been increasing....

It seems the more we do to combat climate change at home, the less significant we become on the world stage....

 

the solution to that is become the inovators of change, own the green economy

[WorcsWuss]

thats it blame it on everyone else, we STARTED THIS MESS!

 

We did start it Tony, but only the bit we know about.

And even if you or I devoted our entire lives to it, so long as the far east is discovering full fat capitalism, there is only one way for the world.

It's not a case of shoulder shrugging, 'not my fault so I won't do anything'... It's the realisation that we have missed our opportunity to change things.

That lies with China, India, Africa etc now. It's up to them to curb population growth, natural resource use and carbon output.

The west have always meddled in others' affairs, and perhaps so much so that we are simply ignored now that it really matters....I despair that while we had the chance to shape the future, we threw it away in the quest for cheap consumer goods and copious quantities of exotic food piled high in our supermarket aisles.... And now a country of 1.4 Bn people... ONE POINT FOUR BILLION PEOPLE... has discovered what we're so fiercely protective of, and they want it, and they're sure as hell gonna have it, and they don't give a flying fig about whatever we say about responsibility... they're on the gravy train now and giving us a full two fingers thank you very much.....

[WorcsWuss]

I'm with you by the way Tony, things need to change. I just a little concerned that the opportunity may have been missed....

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

yes, thats another facet of human nature, not to learn from others mistakes.

[WorcsWuss]

yes, thats another facet of human nature, not to learn from others mistakes.

 

Totally

 

The culture barrier will make it doubly problematic in this instance as well....

[teepeeat]

WorcsWuss, places in league tables dont give the full picture.

UK population of approx 62m out of 7billion means that that less than 1% of the worlds population is producing 1,7% of the emissions - ie more than our fair share.

Agreed, things are changing and I dont disagree with a lot you are saying, just that we put out more than we should.

Dont think those numbers include what the Chinese et al put out on our behalf to support our addiction to cheap goods.

Edited June 11, 2012 by teepeeat

[WorcsWuss]

WorcsWuss, places in league tables dont give the full picture.

UK population of approx 62m out of 7billion means that that less than 1% of the worlds population is producing 1,7% of the emissions - ie more than our fair share.

Agreed, things are changing and I dont disagree with a lot you are saying, just that we put out more than we should.

Dont think those numbers include what the Chinese et al put out on our behalf to support our addiction to cheap goods.

 

Ref league tables, agreed, but they're all we have.

Ref making nearly twice as much carbon as we should, agreed, but we, perhaps more so than anyone else bar a few western European economies, are going in the right direction

Ref Chinese carbon generation figures, I wondered the same. Much of Chinese production is 'on behalf' of the West.

So if my 'boycot' of Chinese [etc] made goods [as far as that is possible, even I have to accept there are some essential things such as a mobile phone which are only made there] was taken up by everyone, then perhaps generation figures would be more accurate if nothing else...

 

Awareness is a good chunk of the battle. Once it becomes second nature to all of us to judge our actions against their consequences and have a wider understanding of the world around us, then there will be the power to make a collective change.

But as long as it's 'just a few liberals & tree huggers' for whom climate change is their primary concern, there's still a long road ahead, and I just don't know whether we can all get down it in time to make a difference...

[Albedo]

Hi Tony

 

Long time since we crossed swords aye mate. I bet you've forgotten:001_smile:

 

This subject used to be my hobby for about 10 years, but not so much recently.

 

I think though that you are about 10 to 15 years late with this thread.

 

Look into 'lag times' with regard to the atmospheric response to reductions in anthropogenic C02x emissions and then look into 'tipping points'..... I rest my case:sneaky2:

 

If all the science and modelling is correct... which is never a given.. then we are well and truly screwed already:biggrin:..... Which I think is what Worcs Wuss is alluding to.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Albedo
added the x which is an annotation for greenhouse gasses

[RobArb]

We're all screwed anyway when mother earth decides its time to shift the Pacific ring of fire!

 

Indonesia 2004, Chile 2008, NZ and Japan last year, its getting closer to the San Andreas fault line, and when it sites that giant Caldera sitting underneath Yellowstone park, well.... Chain reaction springs to mind, and "experts" (or scaremongers) think is well over due!

 

The human race doesn't stand a chance, climate change or not!

 

Well that was a nice bit of doom and gloom for a night:001_rolleyes:

 

Sent from my Galaxy S2