Climate change- discuss

[Amelanchier]

I'm surprised at you to say the least..

 

You seem to have a different reading of his post than I do.

 

I read it to be an acknowledgement of the modern condition - we blame society for our failings. As my man Hobbes said a few years back "Competition of praise inclineth to a reverence of antiquity. For men contend with the living, not with the dead." How is that not relevant to the debate? Who is to say whether Mr S. Grinder has not prolifically read and rehearsed the arguements?

 

Incidentally, I was tempted to rehearse the attack the arguement principle at the start of this post when one poster called another a fool for not sharing his opinion...

 

The fact is that the science side doesn't know exactly what is going to happen for sure, because climate is so complex.

 

I concur. I find the Lombergian view compelling - money is more useful when spent on adaption than on attempting prevention.

[Albedo]

You seem to have a different reading of his post than I do.

 

I read it to be an acknowledgement of the modern condition - we blame society for our failings. As my man Hobbes said a few years back "Competition of praise inclineth to a reverence of antiquity. For men contend with the living, not with the dead." How is that not relevant to the debate? Who is to say whether Mr S. Grinder has not prolifically read and rehearsed the arguements?

 

Incidentally, I was tempted to rehearse the attack the arguement principle at the start of this post when one poster called another a fool for not sharing his opinion...

 

 

 

I concur. I find the Lombergian view compelling - money is more useful when spent on adaption than on attempting prevention.

 

Mr S.Grinder may well have read and rehearsed the arguments, I confess that I have stereotyped him here. But he did call names rather than contribute ... hence my stereotyping and I tried to refrain from being rude although my post was not complementary either.

 

I'm afraid I don't understand the rest of your post Tony.... Could you put it in English Please:thumbup1:

[Pumpy]

Starting the debate with al Gore is a bad plan, there were 35 factual errors in his film, 9 of them were proven in a UK court.

 

What is the empirical evidence Co2 causes global warming?

[Albedo]

We've always got to be worrying ourselves sick and blaming ourselves for something.

I have always thought that those who spend their time proselytizing about World's End etc, would be the same people who, in another time (or culture) would be religious zealots exhorting us to feel terrible about ourselves and wear a hair shirt all day.

 

Tony... I can see that you might have read this differently to the way I read it but I find it offensive.

 

Why should those who are concerned and informed about modern day environmental issues be compared to 'religious zealots' of the past.

 

Sorry but I don't find this acceptable.

[Amelanchier]

I'd rather let a hated vegetarian homosexual political scientist explain it himself.

 

Bjorn Lomborg sets global priorities | Video on TED.com

[Albedo]

Starting the debate with al Gore is a bad plan, there were 35 factual errors in his film, 9 of them were proven in a UK court.

 

What is the empirical evidence Co2 causes global warming?

 

 

 

This is a real problem for me Pumpy.

 

The issue is so vast that you can't answer this question without writing a lot and I mean pages and pages.

 

If I thought I could I would. The only thing we can do on this one is to educate ourselves.

 

I have been trying to think of ways of breaking it down into bite size chunks.

 

It would be a bit like taking on Adams rigging thread.

[Amelanchier]

Tony... I can see that you might have read this differently to the way I read it but I find it offensive.

 

Why should those who are concerned and informed about modern day environmental issues be compared to 'religious zealots' of the past.

 

Sorry but I don't find this acceptable.

 

I don't think those who were "concerned and informed" were being accused. Also, at least from my point of view, I was speaking hypothetically - I didn't actually expect anyone (not even Tony) to justify themselves!

[likeitorlumpit]

Starting the debate with al Gore is a bad plan, there were 35 factual errors in his film, 9 of them were proven in a UK court.

 

What is the empirical evidence Co2 causes global warming?

 

I don't know what but I suspect they gather CO2 % evidence from old ice and growth from fossil wood and somehow relate the two.

Have to say Tony- going off grid isn't going to help if the problem is caused by something else. We need to get rich/ get technical and get able which isn't going to happen if mankind goes down that route.

That isn't to say we shouldn't recycle etc- thats so patently a good idea

Also local food usually tastes better- look at tomatoes

But do you really want to give up pineapples/bananas/mangoes/avacado/dates/figs/the list goes on. Lets face it you will need to go vegan.

Humans want choice- they want interest. They may want to holiday in UK for a year because they think they have to because of the recession but ultimately they want the experience of other cultures and climates- snowboarding in Canada etc etc. Canoe down the Amazon- the list goes on and the more we do of these things the more of these experiences we feel we need just to be happy.

Meanwhile you are stuck in your 50 sq. mile world- you won't be pissed off will you? You are racing away in your head at the moment and that is stimulation enough but will it last. I'm not attacking you but questioning whether it will really make you happy.

Oh the dilemma of the tree hugger..........

[Pumpy]

This is a real problem for me Pumpy.

 

The issue is so vast that you can't answer this question without writing a lot and I mean pages and pages.

 

If I thought I could I would. The only thing we can do on this one is to educate ourselves.

 

I have been trying to think of ways of breaking it down into bite size chunks.

 

It would be a bit like taking on Adams rigging thread.

 

I know, I've been looking for it myself for 25 years, couldn't find it, which is one reason I am a sceptic.

 

What are the main reasons convince you?

[Albedo]

Fair enough mate.

 

I had let it ride till you quoted him, and it did get my back up. As I am on best behaviour and in the interest of less derailing I'm happy to let it go. Feel free to have your say however Mr S.Grinder.