Buzzard "Management" Research to go ahead

[Le Sanglier]

There is a lot of talk about "balance" I don't think it exists in the way people think,

by which I mean some kind of "right" amount of everything. populations have always fluctuated, starlings, voles, owls et al have huge surges and near disappearances,

This is not really relevant to the buzzard debate as such I just find the whole balance of nature stuff a bit simplistic and Disneyfied

[Sam Thompson]

to coin a phrase There are "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"

 

having done my degree and MSc thesis on game management and effects on species of conservation interest, we could all be give the same raw data about buzzards, but by using different interpretation and statistics we could all come up with an answer that suits us, to be fair the money in DEFRA's tender for this means its going to be a really small scale trail as you simply can do the ground work required for a detailed study on that budget IMHO, unless you use it fund a couple of PhD's with it then you may get some impartial but decent data.

 

Im really supprised that they have done this for buzzards before DEFRA have done research on sparrowhawks which has been regarded as in issue for the last 15+years, although most of this sparrowhark research has already been done by the likes of GWCT. I think this comes on the back of some serious lobbying by the NGO bigwigs but certainly on the ground in eastern England I used to keeper on buzzards didnt even surface on the radar as being an issue.

 

Hopefully sensible decisions are made, as having worked for various bodies including the local joint raptor study group the last thing the conservation sector in the country needs is more material to cause arguments, what is really required is compromise on all sides, I have worked with very co-operative keepers on the moors, and some that are very wary, likewise I have also had dealings with Raptor groups that wont actually work with people in the conservation sector. Until a compromise be reached the stalemate will continue.

 

FTR I shoot have done all my life and I have yet to see a well managed proper shoot with a decent keeper that has an issue with raptors. the first thing i look for on the farm land is what state the environment is in, as if its being managed well for nature then game normally does ok, so good hedges are a must, if you butcher hedges every year then your going to have raptor predation as you removing a significant amout of cover and movement corridors for the wildlife. Even little things like consideration of where to site release pens, if you make a big opening in the woodland and then sit a pen full of 400ready meals in it with an abundance of perching points around it your going to have issues.

 

I have found a lot of so called keepers now dont want to put the leg work in, dont even get me started on red-legs on grouse moors

 

 

I had convinced myself i wasnt going to get drawn into this as well

 

Charlie,

 

Very good post .

 

The more I talk to people within shooting I wonder how we are still going some times. There is a real attitude of "we must defend it all" when it comes to even the tiniest question being raised about anything, be it ethics, humanity or whatever. [That isn't in response to Charlie's post, just a thought]

 

At some point I can see the industry shooting itself in the foot over something or other and it being unrecoverable.

 

Hopefully DEFRA will come back with a better thought out proposal in the future, and in the mean time and those that need to should push hard for licences to be issued where there is large scale predation occurring.

[Paulfreebury]

to coin a phrase There are "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"

 

having done my degree and MSc thesis on game management and effects on species of conservation interest, we could all be give the same raw data about buzzards, but by using different interpretation and statistics we could all come up with an answer that suits us, to be fair the money in DEFRA's tender for this means its going to be a really small scale trail as you simply can do the ground work required for a detailed study on that budget IMHO, unless you use it fund a couple of PhD's with it then you may get some impartial but decent data.

 

Im really supprised that they have done this for buzzards before DEFRA have done research on sparrowhawks which has been regarded as in issue for the last 15+years, although most of this sparrowhark research has already been done by the likes of GWCT. I think this comes on the back of some serious lobbying by the NGO bigwigs but certainly on the ground in eastern England I used to keeper on buzzards didnt even surface on the radar as being an issue.

 

Hopefully sensible decisions are made, as having worked for various bodies including the local joint raptor study group the last thing the conservation sector in the country needs is more material to cause arguments, what is really required is compromise on all sides, I have worked with very co-operative keepers on the moors, and some that are very wary, likewise I have also had dealings with Raptor groups that wont actually work with people in the conservation sector. Until a compromise be reached the stalemate will continue.

 

FTR I shoot have done all my life and I have yet to see a well managed proper shoot with a decent keeper that has an issue with raptors. the first thing i look for on the farm land is what state the environment is in, as if its being managed well for nature then game normally does ok, so good hedges are a must, if you butcher hedges every year then your going to have raptor predation as you removing a significant amout of cover and movement corridors for the wildlife. Even little things like consideration of where to site release pens, if you make a big opening in the woodland and then sit a pen full of 400ready meals in it with an abundance of perching points around it your going to have issues.

 

I have found a lot of so called keepers now dont want to put the leg work in, dont even get me started on red-legs on grouse moors

 

 

I had convinced myself i wasnt going to get drawn into this as well

 

I find your comment that you have yet to see a well managed proper shoot with a decent keeper that has an issue with raptors (is in my opinion) based on your very limited knowledge of game shooting, the countryside, and the people that try to scrape a living from it!! I would like to invite you to our shoot anytime you want to prove that your comment is totally unjustified!! I hope you will except my invitation.

[Charlieh]

I find your comment that you have yet to see a well managed proper shoot with a decent keeper that has an issue with raptors (is in my opinion) based on your very limited knowledge of game shooting, the countryside, and the people that try to scrape a living from it!! I would like to invite you to our shoot anytime you want to prove that your comment is totally unjustified!! I hope you will except my invitation.

 

Paul, fair enough we are going to have to differ on this, after all its a forum and its for discusssion. You may have a well managed shoot and have raptor problems, but as i said on all the sites i have ever had any dealings with there have been significant subtle improvements that could be made to help prevent raptors preying on game species. I'm sorry if my post seemed patronising to you, it wasnt meant to be that way.

 

I would prefer if however you didnt propose to know what shooting experince i have or what my knowledge of the countryside is at all in any way shape or form as having never knowingly met. Again though sorry for any offence you may have take from my post, its not a dig a keepers as i have been there myself for a couple of years (i will certainly take you up on the offer if i get down your neck of the woods, as i always like to look around other shoots )

[Mycoman]

A reasonable article on the matter:

 

BBC Nature - Are birds of prey being unfairly persecuted?

[Andy Collins]

Im not really convinced by the over predation argument, what annoys me is at last year we were involved in ringing buzzards, this year the government bodies are paying for nests to be destroyed, totally inbreach of the Law IMO.