do i or dont i??

[Rupe]

hi everyone!

i currently have a full time job but am really wanting to set up on my on so im looking into getting a van get bits of equipment that i dont already have and start getting out there.

ive been offered work on weekends by a mate who runs a local firm but only if i go self employed so that fits into this aswell.

im looking at getting my own insurance and go self employed see how much work i can get etc and see how things go before dumping a safe job any info on good insurance etc would be great i know theres a loads of you clued up in this so any help would be much appreciated many thank

 

In the absence of a specific cause to exclude the employee working for other than the employer, the employer would need to show the employee's actions were in direct competition with their business and so likely to harm them. Restraint of trade clauses are prima facie void, with the onus on the party relying on them to show them as 'reasonable'.

 

 

You can quote stuff all you want, but it will be up to him to prove that after he's sacked. I'm not saying dont do it, just saying you can expect to be sacked or at the least your job may become very unpleasant.

 

I dont understand a word of what you said, but I know that you get sacked first and can sort it out after if think you will win. Seen it happen plenty of times, and I would do it to an employee aswell, in a second, with little regard for what some HR expert had to say about it. And even if you win (your employer gets fined) you still wont have your job back and the likelyhood of employment in the industry in the same area is then much slimmer.

 

With the shortage of jobs that there is at the moment, I give my advice with all honesty, without the need for quoting legal BS.

Edited May 7, 2012 by Rupe

[felixthelogchopper]

hi everyone!

i currently have a full time job but am really wanting to set up on my on so im looking into getting a van get bits of equipment that i dont already have and start getting out there.

ive been offered work on weekends by a mate who runs a local firm but only if i go self employed so that fits into this aswell.

im looking at getting my own insurance and go self employed see how much work i can get etc and see how things go before dumping a safe job any info on good insurance etc would be great i know theres a loads of you clued up in this so any help would be much appreciated many thank

 

 

You can quote stuff all you want, but it will be up to him to prove that after he's sacked. I'm not saying dont do it, just saying you can expect to be sacked or at the least your job may become very unpleasant.

 

I never said that it wouldn't be. My comment was never about the advisability of his actions, just the legal position of his contract. Law is generally about opinions and the ability to argue them, and often the law is not cut and dried. Within a precedent based system, it's down to arguing that your situation fits the case that suits you best rather than that which suits your opponent. Much of this area of law revolves around the word 'reasonable' and I stand by my previous comments re specific contract terms and restraint of trade.

 

Edit; Legal BS? As I recall, you rather enjoy a legal comment yourself.

Edited May 7, 2012 by felixthelogchopper
Response to previous poster's edit.

[felixthelogchopper]

Rupe, I always respect your opinion and, other than on this occasion, I normally agree with you but on this subject I think we may be coming from different directions. My comments regarding the contract situation do not have any bearing on the OP's position directly, only your statement that he would be guilty of gross misconduct.

[Rupe]

Ok, I accept that the term "gross misconduct" might not have been correct. But maybe I shouldnt have said anything about law, as I am not really interested in the complications of law.

 

The facts are though, that unless you have a very understanding (stupid) boss, you will be treading on very thin ice if you officially go self employed to work for someone else at weekends.

 

Even if not in tree work, if you work all weekend and are not on good form for monday then you risk losing your job. Even if you play sports all weekend and come in tired/injured on a regular basis, you can find your self replaced by someone less "risky".

 

Employment is a rare enough thing that you shouldn't mess with it. And I dont know any tree companies with an HR department, its all fairly old school. YOu can get sacked for no reason, weather thats legal or not, you find out if its legal if you take it up in court afterwards, but for many its too late by then.

 

I personally would take it as gross misconduct, even if that isnt the correct term. The OP should either discuss with his boss, or if that is not a comfortable thing to do then I would suggest keeping very quiet about it. But taking a wage with holiday pay etc. while planning to set up on your own is extremely insulting to the person paying the wage, and its naive to think that its all going to be ok.

 

So lets all forget about law, I dont like all that legal speak, its pointless, my bad for mentioning it.

 

As said before, I know of quite a few examples of people finding themselves sacked very quickly, and as yet I dont know of any taking it to an employment tribunal.

[Arborisk Team]

hi everyone!

i currently have a full time job but am really wanting to set up on my on so im looking into getting a van get bits of equipment that i dont already have and start getting out there.

ive been offered work on weekends by a mate who runs a local firm but only if i go self employed so that fits into this aswell.

im looking at getting my own insurance and go self employed see how much work i can get etc and see how things go before dumping a safe job any info on good insurance etc would be great i know theres a loads of you clued up in this so any help would be much appreciated many thanks

 

Hi,

 

If you want to get an idea as to what you're insurance would cost if you decide to go self employed, we'd be happy to give you a quote!

Bartlett Group - Arborist Insurance Tree surgeon Insurance Arborisk.co.uk - or if you want us to give you a call just let me know your number.

[Andy Collins]

Just picking up on Rupes point, this is a very small industry, with limited opportunities for people. Work is hard to find for many, labour is dispensable. If you mess with your employer youre not only reducing your chance of employment with him, but with everyone he knows in the trade. Now lets assume you take the legal route, take him to court for unfair dismissal, all you would achieve is reducing your future employment further. This may not be legal or above board, or even advisable, but it is fact.

Whats going to annoy your employer further may be the fact that he requires you to work the occasional Saturdays, but you cant because you have your own jobs on. Who should come first, the man who puts food on your table, pays your bolls week in week out maybe?

Think long and hard about what sort of employee you are going to be, if you want to go s/employed, then do it 100%, then your employer knows that you are likely to work anywhere for a price, whether for him or yourself, or even his direct competition, but at least he knows.

[Rupe]

I think that is what I was trying to say andy. I wasnt meaning that by "law" you will get sacked and there is nothing you can do about it, I meant forget the law, you risk getting sacked and there is not a great deal you can do about it.

 

By all means get quotes for insurance, but you dont need it if your just doing some jobs for a mate at weekends, but trying to do everything by the book, (insurance, and tax wise) will actually cause you more problems than they solve, unless, as I said, you have a very stupid employer.

 

I know of one bloke who turned up to work in a sign written van, and was sacked on the spot, and still thinks that was unfair!!!!!

 

 

If an employee gets offered private work at weekends then the correct thing to do is to price it up for the employing company to do, and arrange with the boss for a percentage. Not try and get the work done at weekends yourself. Of course I know that that rarely happens.

[Theocus]

I agree with Rupe with this thread, if you want security of employment then dont p£$s your boss off doing on the books wk end work.

 

"I know of one bloke who turned up to work in a sign written van, and was sacked on the spot, and still thinks that was unfair!!!!! "

 

I also might know someone who became very unpopular by turning to work in a sign written Theocus vehicle once upon a time, i didnt last very long after that point forward. Oh hind sight, what a wonderful thing!!!!!

[White Noise]

I'll second that

[White Noise]

I had a young lad working for me for 4 years and sent him to college and paid for his relevant tickets . Only to find him after 4 years of investment having an A board made by my local sign writer advertising his services . I sacked him the following day . Muppet to bite the hand that feeds you must be 100% committed or stupid . No disrespect to yourself .