Newbies and start-ups

[Rupe]

I read the OP this morning and have been thinking about it all day, I agree with everything said above about how hard it is and how hard you have to work long hours etc etc. but the OP was about arbtalk being there to give advice and encouragement for newbies and startups.

 

I dont wholly agree with that, Arbtalk is there for whatever its members want to talk about (within decency guidleines) and there is no requirement for anybody to encourage others if they dont want to, and mostly with arbs you will just get the bitter truth, some facts, a bit of banter and some BS.

 

So the majority come in here to let of steam, have some banter and chat about the work that we all do, and get advice here and there. If newbies want to come in and ask how to price jobs, and what sort of wages can they command in day one of a job they haven't got yet, then thats fine, but the rest of us are under no obligation to be all nice and reassuring with them.

 

There are too many "fully qualified" tree surgeons (by that I mean CS31-39 done last week) for the amount of work available and the training providers do not do enough IMO to be honest to youngsters with less than average hope of getting a job. The pass rate on climbing courses is way too high IMO and maybe it IS down to arbtalkers to do a bit of weeding out.

 

The kind of ignorance and stubborness required to ignore the negative comments on here is exactly the type of personality required to get on this industry, anyone feeling deflated by less than perfect input from AT has no chance anyway.

[Andy Collins]

I agree with Rupes statement. It does no favours to Molly coddle anyone, to pretend it's all fine and dandy, that the grass is always greener. It isn't, it's tough and getting tougher. The country is in financial trouble, this has percolated down to us all.

I wish all the new folk out there all the best for their future, and will always be as helpful and honest as possible in my replies, we do need new blood to come in, good healthy new blood to help us older guys to retirement.

[Tom10]

I read the OP this morning and have been thinking about it all day, I agree with everything said above about how hard it is and how hard you have to work long hours etc etc. but the OP was about arbtalk being there to give advice and encouragement for newbies and startups.

 

I dont wholly agree with that, Arbtalk is there for whatever its members want to talk about (within decency guidleines) and there is no requirement for anybody to encourage others if they dont want to, and mostly with arbs you will just get the bitter truth, some facts, a bit of banter and some BS.

 

So the majority come in here to let of steam, have some banter and chat about the work that we all do, and get advice here and there. If newbies want to come in and ask how to price jobs, and what sort of wages can they command in day one of a job they haven't got yet, then thats fine, but the rest of us are under no obligation to be all nice and reassuring with them.

 

There are too many "fully qualified" tree surgeons (by that I mean CS31-39 done last week) for the amount of work available and the training providers do not do enough IMO to be honest to youngsters with less than average hope of getting a job. The pass rate on climbing courses is way too high IMO and maybe it IS down to arbtalkers to do a bit of weeding out.

 

The kind of ignorance and stubborness required to ignore the negative comments on here is exactly the type of personality required to get on this industry, anyone feeling deflated by less than perfect input from AT has no chance anyway.

 

I like your reply - and do agree, to work in this industry banter is a must. Sarcastic, funny, dry comments from industry experts is what a forum is all about and thats fine. If you cry at people giving you a hard time this is no job to be in.

 

Im really mentioning the posts that have been a complete put down of the original post with no relevance. iv seen several newbies asking questions (what you, I or someone else might think is blindingly obvious) and instead of giving a sensible answer, a bit of banter included and some worldly advice. Its been a case of no answer to the question, no funny / dry input, just a plain simple dont bother in this industry, you cannot succeed.

 

Thats different to a formidable arb putting a young whippersnapper in his place.

 

Tom

[Pedroski]

Wise words.

 

More people chasing the same amount of work drives prices and standards down.

 

It's tough out there at the mo for established companies who know what they're doing.

 

Lads still living at home doing jobs for beer money are damaging the industry.

 

But it's not just in tree work. It's in ALL industries for the simple fact that are more kids leaving school/college etc, than there are jobs available, and there are more old people staying in work. This is why newbies need to be mentored in the right way, and not just told it's not worth bothering. You could equally well tell someone it's just not worth bothering looking for any work at all, and then in the next breath you'll be moaning that too many kids are on the dole doing nothing.

[Rupe]

Oh, ok, I have not seen any like that I dont think, there was one recently where the question really was silly and the were lots of funny answers which were all deserved.

 

But some really wont succeed and if they think the answers are on the internet then that just confirms that they wont succeed. And Arbtalk is here for whatever the members choose, but I agree downright rudeness is a bit un called for, I'll try harder to keep quiet!

 

Who are the "formidable arbs"? I have never met any of them here?

[Dean Lofthouse]

 

Who are the "formidable arbs"? I have never met any of them here?

 

Monsieur Bolam of course

 

He has international notoriety

[Mark Bolam]

Formidable a**e maybe.

[Rupe]

Monsieur Bolam of course

 

He has international notoriety

 

Oh of course, and that shutler bloke maybe!

[Tom10]

Pedroski - My point exactly

 

Rupe - Agree - and not aiming my comments at anyone specific. I dont think a forum with testosterone fueled, tree climbing, chainsaw wielding arbs is the place for everyone to get on, never have a disagreement and tell eachother how nice we look

 

Banter is cool, everyones up for a laugh after a days work and thats not my gripe.

 

To sum up - if a newbie comes onto this forum it would be nice for them to leave thinking they can succeed but ONLY with a huge amount of hard work and skill (and have the answer to their question)

 

As opposed to leaving thinking i may as well not bother and end up sitting on the dole or retraining in a well known fast food chain, for example.

 

By formidable I mean the well respected knowledgable types who juniors look up to.

 

Tom

[Rupe]

As opposed to leaving thinking i may as well not bother and end up sitting on the dole or retraining in a well known fast food chain, for example.

 

No, I think "do you want fries with that" is best for them!!

 

If they give up because the virtual people on the interent wernt nice to them then they are no hopers, sorry thats how it is. Arbtalk is not here to create more Arbs, it might do but thats not its purpose (I dont think).

 

We should be polite though, or maybe just not answer the silly questions at all, but then you would have just the other newbies giving advice which is not necessaarily a good thing.

 

If they go to a careers advisory service they will only be told that they need tickets, if they go to get tickets they will only be told how much it costs, if they go to get a job they will only be told how much experience they need to have.

 

Much better to try here first and if it sends some to maccie d's then no worries.