Switching from oil to wood

[MikeM]

I’m currently looking into the idea of installing a log gasification boiler and accumulator tank in an existing outbuilding to replace an old oil fired boiler. I’d welcome any advice from others who have done this or are thinking along similar lines. My current preference is for an Eco Angus boiler.

 

I’m hoping to offset some of the costs through the Renewable Heat Incentive, which is due to kick in for domestic appliances late next year, but details of payment levels are not yet announced. Slightly nervous about this given what has happened to the feed in tariff for photovoltaics last month.

 

Does a wholesale switch to wood heating at this stage make sense without certainty about financial incentives, or is sticking with oil and a couple of stand alone wood stoves a safer bet? I know the price of oil is only going to go in one direction, but wood isn’t exactly getting cheaper.

[East Anglian landscaping]

Hi we have an eco angus 25kw heats our farmhouse no problem on about 1 barrow of wood over 2 fills for a day made my own buffer tank from a stainless ibc and some cellotex and have a copper coil heat exchanger to heat rads and hot water made all the differance as we now have heat in the mornings and not -5 as it was last year

Whole thing cost about 4k in and working but you do need a bit of a free style plumber

If you want give me a ring 07879495445 and ill explain some more Tony

[Daniël Bos]

I opted out of the RHI thing after some lengthy discussions with a friend who runs a renewables company. The tarif has been set, but there is no saying it won't be changed. It won't be changed for existing customers as there are none yet as the scheme has not yet started for domestic users.

One of the main issues is it has to be installed by an MSC accredited installer wich pushes the price of the most basic system up to about £10K.

Then the actual RHI is very unclear. You're going to be paid by how much heat you produce (not an incentive for frugal use of fuel) but there is no way of measuring how much heat that is! There are technically means of doing so, but these have not been aproved by the RHI.

 

When we put it all on paper, it would have had a "payback" time of about 34 years in our case, that is if this and all consecutive governments honour agreements made...

 

I opted for solar hot water (wich I can install myself as the extra cost of having that qualify for RHI would never ever pay back) and a rayburn with back-boiler, again self-installed.

 

 

 

Do your research, put everything down on paper, talk to several installers.

Good Luck

[firewood]

I went to a seminar two weeks ago about RHI.

 

North of the border commercial rhi is available now. domestic rhi in 12 months time.

 

the commercial rhi pays out roughly double what you spend out in fuel per year as measured by a special meter attached to your hot "flow" pipe. so spend £2500 p.a. for pellets and get paid £5000 in RHI.

 

THey were really pushing chip and pellet boilers. log gasifying boilers less so.

 

as stated above you must use an approved installer which means some of the gain is swallowed in high kit and install prices.

 

 

RHI rates for domestic installs are yet to be announced but once you are in the scheme i believe rate of incentive will be fixed for 20 years.

 

If i were you i would wait until the rates are announced before committing to ensure you can access the scheme and that it is worthwhile.

[MikeM]

THey were really pushing chip and pellet boilers. log gasifying boilers less so.

 

Are they thinking of excluding log gasifying boilers from the eligible technology I wonder. It’s possible to retro apply for RHI for any approved technology installed after 15 July 2009, but no guarantee until final details of the domestic scheme are announced of what technology will be included.

 

Apart from the convenience factor I’m not too keen on pellets. They cost a fortune and require far more energy to produce than logs, which can also be self produced without the need for expensive equipment.

 

 

I opted for solar hot water (wich I can install myself as the extra cost of having that qualify for RHI would never ever pay back) and a rayburn with back-boiler, again self-installed.

 

I self installed solar directly to the HW cylinder a couple of years ago. Can’t say I’m hugely impressed, although we haven’t had too much sunshine in the last few years!

 

By self installing I had to pay VAT at 17.5% on the kit as opposed to 5% if it had been installed by a contractor. Never did get my head round the reason for this. Even wrote to my MP about it, who told me it was European legislation!

 

The same seems to apply to log boilers. 20% VAT if buying direct but only 5% via an approved installer.

[MikeTM150]

Hi

 

I'm just considering the same thing, a 60kw eco angus for our big farmhouse. We used to have a farm 2000 wood bolier for 25 years, then when it rotted out and oil was 8p/litre and my father was diagnosed with parkinsons we went to oil burner. Now it cost a fortune to have the heating on for just 4 0r 5 hours a night so i'm looking at doing the same.

 

I am unsure of grants, but i have been advised that if i can prove its for commercial use, ie i use it to heat something on the farm aswell like the employee's mess room, i can get into the commercial RHI which then makes it worth the extra cost of fitting in my eyes i think. Now i'm hoping not to have to buy much if any wood for it, we shold have plenty around the farm, but somebody on here and i can't remember who said to claim the grant i have to purchase the wood from a 'registered fuelwood supplier' which obviously would never make it worth doing? Anyone else heard this?

 

Some interesting stuff coming out of this, i'm hoping the plumber who is accredited will allow me to do some of the ' meneal work ' to save a few quid but who knows?

[hardtop110]

I've just fitted a boiler stove, hot water solar panels and a thermal store. I've got a feed from the existing oil boiler too for when I'm away and Mrs 110 needs the heating on.

 

I would say that irrespective of the RHI payments (and they are still pretty much an unknown for domestic installs), unless you can source your wood for free don't do it for financial reasons.

 

I looked at calculating the costs - see this thread

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/firewood-forum/33748-comparing-cost-firewood-other-fuels.html

 

Luckily, I have a couple of friendly farmers/land owners around me, with plenty of firewood I can scavenge for free. I wouldn't be surprised to see the price of firewood rise in line with oil.

[MikeTM150]

I've just fitted a boiler stove, hot water solar panels and a thermal store. I've got a feed from the existing oil boiler too for when I'm away and Mrs 110 needs the heating on.

 

I would say that irrespective of the RHI payments (and they are still pretty much an unknown for domestic installs), unless you can source your wood for free don't do it for financial reasons.

 

I looked at calculating the costs - see this thread

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/firewood-forum/33748-comparing-cost-firewood-other-fuels.html

 

Luckily, I have a couple of friendly farmers/land owners around me, with plenty of firewood I can scavenge for free. I wouldn't be surprised to see the price of firewood rise in line with oil.

 

As with anything 'environmentall friendly' u end up normally paying a premium for it IMO.

 

But the demand is created by the part of the market that cannot support itself, ie the avergae homeowner doesn't want to spend the weekend getting cold and dirty chopping wood. Hence there's a very high demand for it, but for those of us who love it, it still a cheap source of heat........... all the green energy schemes are doing is hopefully ensuring the goverment meets its green targets it has agreed to meet? And if we can use those scheme's to ur advantage then why not, but i don't think u'll ever make money from them? IMO

 

Would u agree?

Edited November 25, 2011 by MikeTM150

[Daniël Bos]

I don't think the issue is trying to make money Mike, it's trying to figure out whether or not the huge amount of extra spending that is needed to qualify for said scheme will be money wisely invested. For me the answer was no.

 

Having said that, there is always the option of "the green deal" basically a government backed mortgage-type loan with low interest rates specifically for improving the energy-efficiency of one's home. It's worth researching as I know there are a few people that are financing their PV panels with one, and expect the FIT-returns to be higher than the GD-repayments, effectively the government is funding their "eco-guilt buy-off" and they are getting paid for it!

[hardtop110]

As with anything 'environmentall friendly' u end up normally paying a premium for it IMO.

 

But the demand is created by the part of the market that cannot support itself, ie the avergae homeowner doesn't want to spend the weekend getting cold and dirty chopping wood. Hence there's a very high demand for it, but for those of us who love it, it still a cheap source of heat........... all the green energy schemes are doing is hopefully ensuring the goverment meets its green targets it has agreed to meet? And if we can use those scheme's to ur advantage then why not, but i don't think u'll ever make money from them? IMO

 

Would u agree?

 

For me it's about energy independence and security. Last winter, the oil companies couldn't or wouldn't deliver to our village for over a month. We had a decent supply but some folk went cold.

Our new setup means that if I wanted to, I could stick up 2 fingers to the oil co's and still have a warm house.

I enjoy collecting the firewood. I drive a desk for a living and it gives me something else to do outdoors.

 

The point I was trying to make is that unless you can sort out your own firewood supply, don't consider shifting to a wood setup on financials alone as I don't think the savings stack up.