Solid Biomass Assurance Scheme

[Alycidon]

Does anyone have any experiance of the above and are suppling logs under it?.

 

It is part of this HETAS Recommended retailer package I am in the process of probably joining

 

http://www.biomassenergycentre.org.uk/pls/portal/docs/PAGE/PRACTICAL/FUEL_SUPPLY/STANDARDS/HETAS%20STANDARDS/SUPPLY%20CHAIN%20COVER%20FOR%20SBAS.PDF

 

Seems pretty simple, they assess what you are doing, how you are keeping records etc and id acceptable away you go.

 

I guess the issue is the cost of the compliance audit !!.

 

A

[WFWales]

Hi Alycidon

 

Talk to the Firewood company - they area SBAS certified - THE FIREWOOD COMPANY.

Cheers

 

Martin

[County4x4]

This has been discussed on here before I think mate.

 

Generally speaking, the opinion seemed to be that it was basically another instance of office types finding another way to take a bit of money off the people actually doing the graft.

 

Firewood dealers who supply a good product generally have no problem shifting their whole stock before winter is out - they have enough - or more than enough customers on their books already. Those customers stick with them because they know they're getting a good product - they don't have any requirement for an official body telling them what they already know. Also, given that I believe it costs a fair bit to regsiter in the first place, and then more again for every tonne sold through the scheme, the supplier is either going to be losing money or putting his prices up to cover the HETAS costs - which his customers will love.

 

The fly by night operators if I can call them that have little interest in the product - they just want to turn a quick profit and get rid - and unfortunately there are enough people buying firewood on price alone to ensure that they can usually shift their stuff as well. They may not use the supplier again, but that doesn't matter to him as he knows that someone else will. So they won't be interested in paying for the scheme - and their logs may become even more attractive if the registered guys are having to increase their prices.

 

This is only my take on it, and others may have different opinions. For what it's worth, I do think that maybe there's a place for some sort of scheme - as it really narks me to see logs you could hang up and drip dry being sold as firewood. However, anything HETAS gets it's grasping fingers into seems to turn out very expensive for the decent guys who already knew they were selling a good product, and are now being asked for another load of money to stick another outfits badge on their truck! The fact that garages/DIY chains shift so much rubbish suggests to me that many customers just don't care - and they couldn't give a toss if it has a HETAS badge on it or not. And they'll continue to buy the stuff that has no chance of complying anyway - so what's the point in you paying to join the scheme?

 

Andy

[Alycidon]

This has been discussed on here before I think mate.

 

Generally speaking, the opinion seemed to be that it was basically another instance of office types finding another way to take a bit of money off the people actually doing the graft.

 

Firewood dealers who supply a good product generally have no problem shifting their whole stock before winter is out - they have enough - or more than enough customers on their books already. Those customers stick with them because they know they're getting a good product - they don't have any requirement for an official body telling them what they already know. Also, given that I believe it costs a fair bit to regsiter in the first place, and then more again for every tonne sold through the scheme, the supplier is either going to be losing money or putting his prices up to cover the HETAS costs - which his customers will love.

 

The fly by night operators if I can call them that have little interest in the product - they just want to turn a quick profit and get rid - and unfortunately there are enough people buying firewood on price alone to ensure that they can usually shift their stuff as well. They may not use the supplier again, but that doesn't matter to him as he knows that someone else will. So they won't be interested in paying for the scheme - and their logs may become even more attractive if the registered guys are having to increase their prices.

 

This is only my take on it, and others may have different opinions. For what it's worth, I do think that maybe there's a place for some sort of scheme - as it really narks me to see logs you could hang up and drip dry being sold as firewood. However, anything HETAS gets it's grasping fingers into seems to turn out very expensive for the decent guys who already knew they were selling a good product, and are now being asked for another load of money to stick another outfits badge on their truck! The fact that garages/DIY chains shift so much rubbish suggests to me that many customers just don't care - and they couldn't give a toss if it has a HETAS badge on it or not. And they'll continue to buy the stuff that has no chance of complying anyway - so what's the point in you paying to join the scheme?

 

Andy

 

 

 

Reserch I have done since I posted points to the scheme being helpfull to promote the wood fuel product to new stove owners IF they manage to find details of the scheme. Cost wise first year looks like £550 plus VAT, ongoing £250 plus VAT for the basic membership. This includes annual on site inspections of processing plant, paperwork etc and end user audits. So you would want to be shifting more than a few tons to make it pay.

 

Me thinks its a bit like BS5750 a few years ago, if you were not approved you would be out of buisness, well that was wrong for sure.

 

None the less to have a user who is satisfied with his stove he needs dry fuel, anything that promotes the benifits of good dry fuel is a good thing. I am going into the Hetas approved retailer scheme, my firewood sales this year were around 50 cu meters, next winter I am looking to move around 150 cu m so if I charged another £5 a cu meter for the HETAS assurance would it make any difference?.

 

Just put Firewood Quality into Google, nothing aboyut the scheme is on page one. Maybe let this one develope a bit more first.

 

A

[renewablejohn]

I would rather guarantee my Moisture Content being less than 20% confirmed with a moisture meter rather some bit of paper saying in theory you have a quality product.

[County4x4]

Fair point Alycidon - but I'd question if it will mean anything to the customer. Sure - there will be a few who will treat the scheme as a "must have" - but my guess would be that the majority will find a few local suppliers and see who does the best quality or the best price - and blow the HETAS registration. The registration process will surely only give a snapshot of the business on a particular day - unless they park a bloke with a hat and a clipboard at your yard gate and you have to pull up to be inspected on your way out with each load.

 

At the end of the day, most of these schemes are little more than a paper exercise that costs money. There are several expensive assurance schemes for chimney sweeps - and I go to jobs all the time where some sweep on such a list has done a bad job or given poor advice. The customer can see himself that I've done a better job or saved him a load of unnecessary work - and I can see no benefit to my business in paying to join in the registration shindig - I've never been asked by a customer once about membership of any trade bodies either it has to be said.

 

From the other side of the argument though - it's a great idea to set yourself up as a regulatory body and then to try and insist on everyone paying to put your badge on things!

 

Each to their own anyway!

 

Andy

[Alycidon]

I would rather guarantee my Moisture Content being less than 20% confirmed with a moisture meter rather some bit of paper saying in theory you have a quality product.

 

Agreed, its what I currently do, but if their is someone else steering customers your way as your product is proven to be constantly up to a specified standard is that worth the subs ?. Not currently but maybe once it is more recognised and used.

 

A

[Fahrenheit]

Do you have to provide a certificate with every delivery of wood as with all of the other schemes?

[Alycidon]

Yes, detailing;

 

Fuel type: ie wood log

Accreditation Status:

Country of Origin;

Moisture Content;

Pack size;

Log Species; ( hard/soft/mixed or ash/beech etc or whatever)

Drying method of log:

Log length:

 

A

[muldonach]

Yes, detailing;

 

Fuel type: ie wood log

Accreditation Status:

Country of Origin;

Moisture Content;

Pack size;

Log Species; ( hard/soft/mixed or ash/beech etc or whatever)

Drying method of log:

Log length:

 

A

 

We are truly living in a world gone mad! For heavens sake we are talking about firewood - the last thing we need is another set of self appointed box tickers

 

Cheers

mac