Mycorrhiza

[Fungus]

In fact I would go so far as to say that the success of something like this, lies with the exact opposite. I don't expect to see much of what I want to create in my lifetime, but it would be nice to pass on improved soil, increased biomass and diversity ... Even on the tiny scale that I can muster. If 100yrs down the line something that I did comes to fruition of finally has a purpose, I see that as a result.

 

Sorry for being so pessimistic, but it has taken me half a lifetime to understand a tiny bit of what is going on in tree species specific ecosystems and soil food webs and how they are influenced by men and other factors and I'm still learning every day.

Even while writing a book on the subject, I still hesitate to claim having any real and practical knowledge of mycorrhizal fungi and the role they play in the dynamics of the life cycles of trees.

[DWOM]

Sorry for being so pessimistic, but it has taken me half a lifetime to understand a tiny bit of what is going on in tree species specific ecosystems and soil food webs and how they are influenced by men and other factors and I'm still learning every day.

Even while writing a book on the subject, I still hesitate to claim having any real and practical knowledge of mycorrhizal fungi and the role they play in the dynamics of the life cycles of trees.

 

And I certainly don't claim to have even the smallest grasp on the complexity. I do know that almost all of the practical work that is being done, is done with gourmet mushrooms and $$$$ as the main aim (chanterelle matsutake etc...). In as short a time as possible. This makes absolutely no sense to me and smacks of intensive monoculture with a twist, it may show small success in the short term, but is destined to fail. We are beginning to understand that permanent agriculture i.e. perennial forest systems are the only way that we can guarantee food and biosphere security. I am trying to establish what is being done, or what could be done about the soil food web and associated life. I am genuinely as interested in species that will kill me as I am about those that will feed me because I understand that one can't exist without the other.

 

I asked this before, but I'll throw it in again. In your honest opinion is the only realistic option for regeneration, to use existing sites as the seat of expansion, mush like native pine regeneration?

[Fungus]

In your honest opinion is the only realistic option for regeneration, to use existing sites as the seat of expansion, much like native pine regeneration?

 

I know of no in vivo experiment that has succeeded in doing that and if I thought it could be done succesfully within a life time, I would have started experimenting myself several decades ago. IMHO it's as with planting trees, we plant them four our children's grandchildren without ever knowing whether they will appreciate or follow up on what we've been trying to pass on to them.

[DWOM]

I know of no in vivo experiment that has succeeded in doing that and if I thought it could be done succesfully within a life time, I would have started experimenting myself several decades ago. IMHO it's as with planting trees, we plant them four our children's grandchildren without ever knowing whether they will appreciate or follow up on what we've been trying to pass on to them.

 

So worth it then I don't think it is really relevant if it's seen in our lifetime or not. I'm talking about regeneration of a degraded environments and how we go about it. We don't do very well at the mo and we need to start doing well, very well, very soon. I don't expect that we have the expanse of time required for the kind of natural regeneration that would mitigate our disastrous practices. If we create from below the ground up, instead of imposition, then maybe we would not see the problems we encounter with current practices. I feel like I've been pondering this for a good while. I've got some good ideas on how to go about re-building impoverished land and degraded eco-systems, the pinnacle of these is the forest, rhizosphere and up!

 

There doesn't seem to be the same kind of collection and culture re. soil life, that there is with plant life (I may not be looking in the right place), particularly in the uk. Even if you are growing saprophytes, you cannot purchase or obtain natively cloned strains or spores, without first finding and then isolating a strain from all the wild 'contaminants' yourself. This incidentally, would play a part in cataloguing woodland micro life. If it's not there to experiment with, then no experimentation takes place, except in the upper echelons. Germinating spores, building mycelium, culturing bacteria are not rocket science, anyone can do this. I imagine that the genotype and potential phenotypic expression of a UK species varies to that of say a European or American species. I am going to begin a program collecting spores and cultured, cloned mycelium. My wish at this stage of my life, is that I had been doing this for as long as I've been thinking about it.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

So worth it then I don't think it is really relevant if it's seen in our lifetime or not. I'm talking about regeneration of a degraded environments and how we go about it. We don't do very well at the mo and we need to start doing well, very well, very soon. I don't expect that we have the expanse of time required for the kind of natural regeneration that would mitigate our disastrous practices. If we create from below the ground up, instead of imposition, then maybe we would not see the problems we encounter with current practices. I feel like I've been pondering this for a good while. I've got some good ideas on how to go about re-building impoverished land and degraded eco-systems, the pinnacle of these is the forest, rhizosphere and up!

 

There doesn't seem to be the same kind of collection and culture re. soil life, that there is with plant life (I may not be looking in the right place), particularly in the uk. Even if you are growing saprophytes, you cannot purchase or obtain natively cloned strains or spores, without first finding and then isolating a strain from all the wild 'contaminants' yourself. This incidentally, would play a part in cataloguing woodland micro life. If it's not there to experiment with, then no experimentation takes place, except in the upper echelons. Germinating spores, building mycelium, culturing bacteria are not rocket science, anyone can do this. I imagine that the genotype and potential phenotypic expression of a UK species varies to that of say a European or American species. I am going to begin a program collecting spores and cultured, cloned mycelium. My wish at this stage of my life, is that I had been doing this for as long as I've been thinking about it.

 

Stamets goes to great lengths to collect and store living cultures of as many "strains" as he possibly can, the more people doing this in each "zone" the better in my opinion. There are a few folk out there that have taken the job of preserving biodiversity very seriously indeed. Its gone from trying in vain to protect habitats to activley preserving the species, this isnt the best plan, but what choice do we have?

[DWOM]

Stamets goes to great lengths to collect and store living cultures of as many "strains" as he possibly can, the more people doing this in each "zone" the better in my opinion. There are a few folk out there that have taken the job of preserving biodiversity very seriously indeed. Its gone from trying in vain to protect habitats to activley preserving the species, this isnt the best plan, but what choice do we have?

 

I love Stamets books, He maybe over eggs it a little sometimes, but he's very inspirational and accessible. Not sure I'm on board with all the trademarking and patent shenanigans, but that just seems to be something that is prevalent throughout the commercial fungi world (and they do things a bit differently over the water). I think people who know a little about it, see the potential, want to protect their interests and further their position, just like they've been taught to do all their lives by this strange world of ours

 

I think you're right, it's up to us as custodians to take some charge. This is happening in a lot of areas. Big business and the corporate world, buying vast tracts of land, shrinking gene pools and patenting the natural in the name of profit, while the home cultivator/collector/breeder stands alone, together with the last remaining vibrancy.

 

Do you know of anyone doing this in the UK? Other than for microscopy, I have struggled to find anybody building mycelium and storing plates. I am almost sure that there isn't anybody working towards the kind of regenerative nursery or re-seeding that I can envisage.

 

Like you say, it's certainly not the best plan, but it seems to be the only one.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I love Stamets books, He maybe over eggs it a little sometimes, but he's very inspirational and accessible. Not sure I'm on board with all the trademarking and patent shenanigans, but that just seems to be something that is prevalent throughout the commercial fungi world (and they do things a bit differently over the water). I think people who know a little about it, see the potential, want to protect their interests and further their position, just like they've been taught to do all their lives by this strange world of ours

 

I think you're right, it's up to us as custodians to take some charge. This is happening in a lot of areas. Big business and the corporate world, buying vast tracts of land, shrinking gene pools and patenting the natural in the name of profit, while the home cultivator/collector/breeder stands alone, together with the last remaining vibrancy.

 

Do you know of anyone doing this in the UK? Other than for microscopy, I have struggled to find anybody building mycelium and storing plates. I am almost sure that there isn't anybody working towards the kind of regenerative nursery or re-seeding that I can envisage.

 

Like you say, it's certainly not the best plan, but it seems to be the only one.

 

 

I spoke to Stamets in the autumn and I wouldnt be too concerned about some of the patents as he has dropped many restrictions. My own interest and enquiry was in relation to innoculating chain saw lubricants for direct innoculation of wounds with harmless saprobics that would create a more competative situation to the principal and more serious parasites like polyporus squamosus ganos etc.

 

He said that we are free to experiment as he had lifted all restrictions on that patent. If your looking to do work that he has patents on I suggest getting in touch, he is wise not greedy, he wants to see this work progress not be limited by corporate giants.

 

I think his style is a very deliberate affair, shame that most do not see past it, he has a big plan.

[DWOM]

It smacks of bad advice to me. His books read and portray him as you say, a man who is working with a purpose. It kind of betrayed his writing, so it's nice to hear that he doesn't really play those games.

 

Did you go any further with the chain oil. With a good base oil and some additives, sugars, vits, it could easily be viable, and not that much of a clat for any arb with the inclination to make up themselves. Were you thinking a mass of spores or shredded mycelium. Only problem I can see with live culture is the filter and it either obliterating the mycelium and knocking it back so hard that less desirables take over, or just blocking it. Maybe a modified filter, for inoculation. I think he also recommends a similar process for chippers! My own personal opinion is that association is likely to best occur via live culture inoculation, just like when growing oysters say, the best springboard for colonisation and beating contaminants is dispersed mycelium that has grown on something nutritious. If the myc takes and fruiting occurs and if a native strain was used, then sporulation and away. If it doesn't take, it wasn't right for the situation. I think were are talking about trees and succession here (veteranisation if you like), rather than forest and soil restoration, I think that the latter will take a different tac.

 

It seems like childs play, when you sit and think for a second, what can we really do. Nature is going to laugh us out of the ring, but we have to start somewhere and it seems that this is the start. Like you said, there are some pioneers out there that have worked so hard to bring us here, the potential is only just being realised and it's only because of them, that we are even here talking about it.

Edited February 12, 2012 by DWOM
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[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

It seems like childs play, when you sit and think for a second, what can we really do. Nature is going to laugh us out of the ring, but we have to start somewhere and it seems that this is the start. Like you said, there are some pioneers out there that have worked so hard to bring us here, the potential is only just being realised and it's only because of them, that we are even here talking about it.

 

I havent taken the chain oil any further (yet) but I am planting an ash a beech an Oak for pollarding in the garden this year, the intention is to use these as Guineapigs for many experiments. I want to try and recreate an ancient woodlan scenario in my garden, hericiums on the beech, Laetiporus on the ash and Piptoporus quercinus on the Oak.

 

and the obvious mycos, Ceps ect

 

we shall see:thumbup1:

[DWOM]

When the ground thaws I will be trying to try and establish some succession beds at home. Pleurotus > Agaricus > Veg. This is mainly to experiment with forming soil and the outputs that can be achieved hijacking this process. By adding substrate and mulch (cut and drop), hoping to eventually provide an environment suitable for the tertiary decomposers to thrive in. I will be using an overstory of coppice Hazel and ash for many reasons, but mainly to see if I can abuse morels into fruiting for a spring crop.

 

Just to note and I expect you're already aware that there are likely better ways to guarantee inoculation on trees and stumps than chainsaw oil. As an example, in my eyes, it may be worth taking shavings from the tree to be inoculated at an earlier date, building mycelium on those shavings and then reintroducing the colonised tree back to itself, particularly with the Laetiporus, hericiums or something like Grifola.

Edited February 12, 2012 by DWOM