Telling the difference between G. adspersum and G. applanatum?

[Harrison2604]

Evening, as some of you know, I'm a novice with fungi... I know the odd one here and there and I'm trying to broaden my knowledge

 

Could somebody PLEASE tell me, the major differences between G. adspersum and G. applanatum? They both look the same to me.

 

[David Humphries]

Get some books, go for a walk in the woods.

take some pictures

 

You'll get a keener understanding of the two similar species that way, rather than just asking.

 

 

 

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[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Evening, as some of you know, I'm a novice with fungi... I know the odd one here and there and I'm trying to broaden my knowledge

 

Could somebody PLEASE tell me, the major differences between G. adspersum and G. applanatum? They both look the same to me.

 

 

when you get this one sorted in the field let me know!

 

Microscopes the only way my man.

[Harrison2604]

Lordy lord. Do both of you still make mistakes at identifying these two Ganos?

 

I honestly cant see much of a visual difference. All G. adspersum brackets grow differently, and they look like G. applanatum! and vice versa! It's hair pulling stuff, fungi.

[sean freeman]

when you get this one sorted in the field let me know!

 

Microscopes the only way my man.

 

I agree with Tony, we have similar problems amongst other species over here the only way to be certain is via the microscope, and TBH for me that means getting someone in the Qld Mycological Soc to run their beadies over it. Maybe in a year I'll have access to a scope.

[David Humphries]

We recently had the opportunity to have a closer 'look' at some of the microscopic distinquishing features between these two very similar species.

 

Visually.........

both have similar looking perennial fruitbodies.

both have similar sized circular pores (although G. applanatum have average slightly more pores(4-6 per mm) as opposed to G, australe which are spaced at about 3-4 per mm

They both have brown(ish) spore.

 

They both share similar but not exclusive hosts. Tilia, Quercus, Aesculus given as shared host species. (Schwarze & Ferner)

 

Anecdotaly, the presence of the galls from Agathomyia wankowici (yellow flat footed fly) on the underside of a bracket, is often given in (various) text as a nod toward G. applanatum although I've been told that these have been noted on G. australe also

The ability to indent the upper surface (due to it being thinner) is given as a feature of G. applanatum.

 

Thinner edged rim is noted for G. applanatum

A decurrent attachment is given as indicating G. australe.

When looking at a slice of a bracket G. applanatum can show distinct show bands of trama (flesh) between the layers of tubes.

 

 

 

The above are not necessarily proof of one species from the other, however microscopically they can be seperated.

 

The spores are larger on average with G. australe being 8.5-10(-12) x 5-7.5 µm; as opposed to the size range being 6-8.5 x 4.5-6 µm for G. applanatum.

 

 

Having looked at lots of Ganoderma brackets in the field I felt the bracket in the following shot was likely to be G. applanatum based on its macroscopic features (from what I've read in Schwarze, Lonsdale, Keizer, Ryvarden & Gilbertson) interestingly it turned out so, confirmed by microscopy conducted by a local friend & field mycologist (Andy Overall).

 

So if in doubt or keen to be sure on an identification, try and get scientific advice where you can as it is out there and available.

 

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[daltontrees]

Evening, as some of you know, I'm a novice with fungi... I know the odd one here and there and I'm trying to broaden my knowledge

 

Could somebody PLEASE tell me, the major differences between G. adspersum and G. applanatum? They both look the same to me.

 

 

I think what everyone's saying (and what I have found to be true) is that there are no MAJOR differences. You've said it yourself.

 

 

I have become a bit obsessed with this australe/applanatum thing and I have reached a happyish equilibrium by going on a majority decision of macroscopic features. Most of the time it doesn't matter which it is, but when it does matter it's because I have to decide on or advise on tree strength or survivability. And if it's difficult to tell them apart, it's AS difficult to prognose them. That might be because collective analysis of failures of each have become blurred by mis-identifications for decades.

 

The distinttion could be quite important, personally I have seen what I think was applanatum beaten by a tree's defences and quite rampant on recent fallen trees, but not so with australe, this far I have not seen what I have identified as australe beaten.

 

And wouldn't it be mind-bending if we found that that they hybridise?

 

I'm with Guru Humphrey's first response. You might as well enjoy the journey, because you might never enjoy the arrival.

[alliaria]

I was told by a mycologist that G.australe often has mycelium in the pore tubes and applanatum does not. Probably too easy though.

[David Humphries]

I was told by a mycologist that G.australe often has mycelium in the pore tubes and applanatum does not. Probably too easy though.

 

Mmmmm, that's interesting.

 

My understanding is that it is the other way around.

 

Schwarze & Ferner state that "In the older parts of the fruit body, the pores (which I take as meaning the base of the tubes) of G. applanatum become filled with white mycelium, whereas those of G. adspersum (australe) remain empty"

 

Any idea where your mycologist got their information from ?

 

 

 

The below images are what I perceive (without microscopy) top be G. applanatum.

the white bits in the tubes may be mycelium.

 

 

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[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Excellent stuff...must remember to put this 20mins on my CPD record.

 

Simplistically, my middle name, I see distinctly different forms of Ganno with one bracket type being very flat and uniform, I associate this with applanatum, and the other being thicker / knobblyer / irregular , which I more associate with adspersum/austral BUT I'm just a H&S bod these days so listen to the experts.

 

In terms of significance, I though Lynn body did a piece of work sometime ago now that suggested adspersum/austral can break down CODIT wall 4 n hence was more aggressive, potentially. Probably this has moved on with Scharze, Humphries and Croft

 

Cheers all n really good stuff, thank you.

Paul