Climbing VS Access platform

[Rupe]

i'm not a climber and havent used access platforms before.

 

but i see them as another tool in our arsenal to call upon when it is the best option surely it should be chosen.

 

Agreed.

 

 

The question wasn't about weather they are safer or not.

 

I agree I would rather be in the tree, and it is more fun to climb. I hate MEWPS and I never feel safe in them. The one (well two, but the same model) in my pics above are 30m ish and you can drive them along from while at full height extension. Stuff that!!

 

But tree work is a business and a MEWP is a tool. If one company quotes 6K to spend two weeks climbing every tree in a quatermile length of roadside and I can do it for 5k in 4 days, I can pay the MEWP hire out of my 5K and my day rate is still way higher than the other comanies.

 

Winning jobs at the highest possible day rate/least amount of days overall is what we are all after and the MEWP can be the way to do it.

 

But its rare that its the best method. I have used one on less than 20jobs in nearly as many years. Need one next week though, must remember to book it!

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

"ms660isthebest" is a young, very fit and very strong guy...my hand is still recovering form his hand shake.

 

IN addition to his posting he also made the very valid point that if your not climbing on a regular basis your skills and competnece will start to wane...fair comment!

 

However, sorry, but I feel compelled to state the H&S position on this:

 

Basically the work at height regs contain a hierarchy of access for undertaking work at height and the practical application for our industry is

1. Ground level, i.e. straight fell / pole pruners etc.

2. MEWP - has collective protective (meaning all who enter into the bucket are automtcially prevneted from falling from height by the guardrails etc.) AND must be considered ahead of individual protective measures.

3. Tree climbing / work positioning.

 

Bottom line, i order to demonstarte compliance iwht the regs, you must be able to show this is the approach you take to tree work at height as a business (hence that is why the AA risk assessment form set outs his heirarchy).

 

IF use of the MEWP does not meet the 'reasonably practicable' test, in other words if the additional cost is disproportionate to the increase in safety, then it can be factored out, i.e. 300 quid job involving a good tree with good anchors and a routine operation whihc could be safely climbed AND the MEWP would add another 200 quid, that would be deemed disproportionate, i.e. increase in cost doesn;'t achieve corresponding increase in safety. However there may be other factors involvong efficiency measures that dictate a MEWP is the best option.

 

Alternatively it may be the 'risk level' asociated with using a MEWP is above that involved in climbing. Interesting HSE have recentlt reported many accidents involving crush injuries by perosn in MEWPs.

 

Won;t waffle anymore BUT, if you're interested, there is a 'Treework at Height' policy / procedure doc. on the AA web resource at Help becoming an ARB Approved Contractor

 

Cheers all..

Paul

[treesnakey]

I worked for one of the biggest companies in Europe and they tested this theory on street trees.

 

There were pros and cons to both. The main points were

 

Platform Pros:

1,Safety

2, the operative does not get as tired.

3, productivity.

 

Cons:

1,The operative become less skilled in our industry.

2, Operative has less job satisfaction and will drive down the cost of the work/industry.

3, platforms cant get full access on thins and access etc.

4, expensive

 

Climber pros

1, highly skill operative.

2, operative job satisfaction

3, access into inner tree.

 

Cons:

1, Safety.

2,Fatigue.

3, less productive through out the day.

[Taupotreeman]

I've used platforms or EPV's quite a bit at Asplundh and another company. The platforms were truck mounted with a chip bin underneath. Average reach was about 55 feet. They were mainly used for power line clearance (being insulated booms) but came in useful for work such as deadwooding, where access is usually difficult, especially on a large Gum. The newer EPV's used had a reach in excess of 65 feet and Asplundh have some two man versions with a 110 foot reach. If used correctly they are an excellent bit of kit and nothing to do with being lazy. The idea is to make life easier for both the operator, company and client and I don't understand why some arborists are so against them. Personally I would prefer to use one in order to make my life easier on a really tricky job (not to mention safer) rather than go home at the end of the day a creaking aching mess. As for safety; if the daily, weekly and monthly checks are done then they should be safe as houses. The checks daily take about 10 to 20 minutes. The weekly checks would be about an hour or so looking at cables, bearings, shims etc. People are willing to check their climbing ropes, lanyards etc before the start of the job but because it's a piece of metal beneath them they think it should be safe as houses without these same safety checks. During my time using them we only ever had one fail and that was due to the operator not carrying out his safety checks and just filling out the forms without actually getting out of the cab. Had he actually looked he would have seen the cable starting to ping strands.

[Rupe]

Question for Paul

 

Is it a requirment then from either the AA or HSE that all tree companies have someone with a valid MEWP ticket?

 

i.e. How can you consider a MEWP and decide to climb anyway if you aren't qualified to use a MEWP in the first place? I am sure you could hire one in with an operator but if a company has never done this they cannot be aware of the possibilities/limitation of MEWPS and so cannot make a decision based on experience wether to use a MEWP or climb?

 

I hold a MEWP ticket, and have used them enough times to know exactly when and where they are good, I'm also ok at climbing trees, so I believe that puts me in a better situation when I decide on my work method for a job than someone who has never used a MEWP.

[skyhuck]

I would off said the same at ur age...but now im 30 running 2 businesses have a baby, wife, and house to look after i work from 6am to 8ish. Where as i agree i do feel safer in the tree but i simply dont have the energy to climb every tree any more.

 

Be careful, the less you climb the less you will be able to climb!!

 

Use it or loose it!!!!!!!

 

I'm 41, I've been climbing for 17 years and intend to climb for the rest of my days. I do all my climbing, I some times get in extra ground staff, but never climbers.

 

I am a climber first and foremost, running my business is just a necessary evil that means I get a good wage. If some one offered me a full time climbing job that paid £35K I think I'd take it.

 

For some, tree work is a business and they will use what ever gets the the job done, for others climbing is what they do and they take real pride in finding a way to get every job done without the need of a MEWP.

[jonsey]

There are various MEWPs not all suited to tree work..We regularly use a T22 ascendant from Skylift, a fantastic tool that is by far quicker and safer for complex dismantles and big reductions etc, not only is it more productive but arguably the finish if your pruning is to a higher standard for the simple reason it will go where a climber cannot, no matter how good you think you are..

I concede they do have their limitations, access and reach etc, I often had to climb out of a 32m platform when pruning / dismantling 40m+ Pops in Baden Wuttenburg to finish off!

[skyhuck]

I worked for one of the biggest companies in Europe and they tested this theory on street trees.

 

There were pros and cons to both. The main points were

 

Platform Pros:

1,Safety

2, the operative does not get as tired.

3, productivity.

 

Cons:

1,The operative become less skilled in our industry.

2, Operative has less job satisfaction and will drive down the cost of the work/industry.

3, platforms cant get full access on thins and access etc.

4, expensive

 

Climber pros

1, highly skill operative.

2, operative job satisfaction

3, access into inner tree.

 

Cons:

1, Safety.

2,Fatigue.

3, less productive through out the day.

 

Excellent study!!!!

 

For me that says it all!! (although I would argue with the "safety" in the con list for climbing, as thats debatable, IMO.)

 

I still hate MEWP's and would only use one as a last resort.

[Rupe]

Excellent study!!!!

 

For me that says it all!! (although I would argue with the "safety" in the con list for climbing, as thats debatable, IMO.)

 

I still hate MEWP's and would only use one as a last resort.

 

 

We were climbing tall willows yesterday in the wind, no way I would have done them with a MEWP!

 

Another problem I have with MEWPS (and cranes) unless you own one you obviously have to hire them in, so if you book one 2 weeks in advance and the day comes and the weather is wet and really windy, waht do you do?

 

All risk assessments start with select suitable work for the weather, yet if you are going to get the bill for the hire charges many firms skip that bit and get on with it. MEWPS in the slightest wind (not breeze) are not fun at all!!

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Question for Paul

 

Is it a requirment then from either the AA or HSE that all tree companies have someone with a valid MEWP ticket?

 

i.e. How can you consider a MEWP and decide to climb anyway if you aren't qualified to use a MEWP in the first place? I am sure you could hire one in with an operator but if a company has never done this they cannot be aware of the possibilities/limitation of MEWPS and so cannot make a decision based on experience wether to use a MEWP or climb?

 

I hold a MEWP ticket, and have used them enough times to know exactly when and where they are good, I'm also ok at climbing trees, so I believe that puts me in a better situation when I decide on my work method for a job than someone who has never used a MEWP.

 

Hi Rupe, thanks for the question.

 

From a HSE point of view an operative needs to have whatever training, skills and competencies needed to underatke the tasks assigned. IN theory, if a company either hire with an operator OR sub-out MEWP work, then they don't need a MEWP ticket. However, the reality is that most businesses presenting for ArbAC do have someone with a MEWP ticket, beit Lantra Awards / IPAF / CITB or A-N-other.

 

I agree totally with your sentiments about those skilled at both climbing and using MEWPS are best placed to decide 'when and where'.

 

Cheers..

Paul