V.T.A symptoms "the chatty trees"

[Treecreeper1961]

According to some, the rate of loss of veteran trees may be unsustainable! some of us quickly prescribe removing 30% of the live crown here and there and this ensures quite a number of the uglier members have a reasonable living.

Why not just leave the bloody thing alone and put a barrier around it? Unfortunately say the lawyers, some people might not heed the warning!

 

A whole saproxylic community can be wiped out in that 30% reduction, that sustain several other ecological communities.

 

Let me at it with a pair of spikes and an ms200t and there will opportunity galore for saproxylic species in a few years.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

According to some, the rate of loss of veteran trees may be unsustainable! some of us quickly prescribe removing 30% of the live crown here and there and this ensures quite a number of the uglier members have a reasonable living.

Why not just leave the bloody thing alone and put a barrier around it? Unfortunately say the lawyers, some people might not heed the warning!

 

A whole saproxylic community can be wiped out in that 30% reduction, that sustain several other ecological communities.

 

Much of the work to reduce, re work the old veterans is in order to SUSTAIN those communities because of the low recruitment of new veterans!

[treeseer]

Much of the work to reduce, re work the old veterans is in order to SUSTAIN those communities because of the low recruitment of new veterans!

 

Very true--wildlife is a valid goal that in many cases can be met, along with enhanced stability. Cables and braces can preserve a lot of habitat. and you're right, it takes waaay too long to make a veteran; gotta keep what few there is left.

[Matthew Arnold]

What do you recon to these two Oaks?

 

1-5 This Quercus robur is clear of the larger neighbouring trees but has an extensive cavity inhabited by Great Tits. The crown is open but healthy.

 

6-11- This one has a full crown but the leaves are slightly yellow. No signs of body language associated with rot but we will be removing the ivy to ground level.

[Treecreeper1961]

Hi Ranger,

Always interesting to have an opinion on other peoples trees!

 

It is difficult to comment on the trees with regard to targets from the photos.

There is obviously a high level of usage around them but how close are the road and any paths?

Perhaps I am jumping the gun, there are some issues though as you have highlighted with the photos.

The cavity in tree one has got really good reaction wood around the opening which is good news of course. However, how extensive is the cavity? Can you estimate the radius of sound wood left intact? If it is anywhere approaching less than a third you should look at the tR ratio by Mattheck for guidance. Estimating remaining thickness is hit an miss at best, it's not just the cavity that you are considering but any decayed wood too.

If the target values dictate I would say investigation with decay detection equipment is appropriate for this defect, especially as the vigorous crown and interesting bends in the stem add to the mechanical stress the stem must endure.

As for the patterns in the bark, seems to me this is indicating buckling where the stem is being bent.

Add that to the cavity and this tree could well be a candidate for a crown reduction to alleviate lever mechanical stress from wind loading, 30% reduction by volume or 12% radially,not removing more than 30% of live growth/leaf area.

 

Tree two seems to be minor deadwood and old pruning wound decay concerns.

Again dependent on traffic and access by you could consider reducing the branches with pruning wounds and shortening the dead wood to retain some for habitat.

As for the ivy, this doesn't have any significance at the density and extent it is currently at. It is very good for wildlife and if your management regime allows it, it could be kept to a height of say 5 metres for biodiversity value.

 

Only my opinion of course. Love to hear that of others.

[RobArb]

Some nice chatty trees today and yesterday

 

first lot, a phototropic oak searching for light

second, sycamore limb reaching out and being supported by graft

thirdly, ash growing on top of a cliff at a weird angle ontop of a cavity with roots showing (how its still standing i'll never know!)

[Matthew Arnold]

Hi Ranger,

Always interesting to have an opinion on other peoples trees!

 

It is difficult to comment on the trees with regard to targets from the photos.

1 - There is obviously a high level of usage around them but how close are the road and any paths?

Perhaps I am jumping the gun, there are some issues though as you have highlighted with the photos.

The cavity in tree one has got really good reaction wood around the opening which is good news of course. 2 -However, how extensive is the cavity? Can you estimate the radius of sound wood left intact? If it is anywhere approaching less than a third you should look at the tR ratio by Mattheck for guidance. Estimating remaining thickness is hit an miss at best, it's not just the cavity that you are considering but any decayed wood too.

If the target values dictate I would say investigation with decay detection equipment is appropriate for this defect, especially as the vigorous crown and interesting bends in the stem add to the mechanical stress the stem must endure.

As for the patterns in the bark, seems to me this is indicating buckling where the stem is being bent.

Add that to the cavity and this tree could well be a candidate for a crown reduction to alleviate lever mechanical stress from wind loading, 30% reduction by volume or 12% radially,not removing more than 30% of live growth/leaf area.

 

Tree two seems to be minor deadwood and old pruning wound decay concerns.

Again dependent on traffic and access by you could consider reducing the branches with pruning wounds and shortening the dead wood to retain some for habitat.

As for the ivy, this doesn't have any significance at the density and extent it is currently at. It is very good for wildlife and if your management regime allows it, it could be kept to a height of say 5 metres for biodiversity value.

 

Only my opinion of course. Love to hear that of others.

 

1 - No targets within falling zone. There are two paths that cross near the the tree but they are well out of the target zone.

 

2 - The cavity extends about 2 feet upwards and 6 inches down. I would estimate there to be about 8 inches of sound wood to the right of the wound and about 12 inches of sound wood to the left. We are planning on having it reduced by about 10% all over. It still has a very healthy crown so we dont want to take too much off.

 

The second tree we shall be having any crossing branches removed and any dead wood fracture pruned. The very lowest limb we will be having reduced by about 15% as it is a "sunseeker" so we dont want that one to fail as it would leave a big wound.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

1 - No targets within falling zone. There are two paths that cross near the the tree but they are well out of the target zone.

 

2 - The cavity extends about 2 feet upwards and 6 inches down. I would estimate there to be about 8 inches of sound wood to the right of the wound and about 12 inches of sound wood to the left. We are planning on having it reduced by about 10% all over. It still has a very healthy crown so we dont want to take too much off.

 

The second tree we shall be having any crossing branches removed and any dead wood fracture pruned. The very lowest limb we will be having reduced by about 15% as it is a "sunseeker" so we dont want that one to fail as it would leave a big wound.

 

sounds about right Matt, but be aware of potential branch welding when assesing the crossing branches for removal.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Some nice chatty trees today and yesterday

 

first lot, a phototropic oak searching for light

second, sycamore limb reaching out and being supported by graft

thirdly, ash growing on top of a cliff at a weird angle ontop of a cavity with roots showing (how its still standing i'll never know!)

 

some nice images there Robin, the last one is a sublime piece of bio-mechanical engineering, a very healthy, vital tree willing to fight gravity with every fibre.

[Matthew Arnold]

sounds about right Matt, but be aware of potential branch welding when assesing the crossing branches for removal.

 

Will do. The majority of them are just rubbing but will tell the contractor to leave any welded branches as not to create unnessecary wounds.