V.T.A symptoms "the chatty trees"

[Treecreeper1961]

 

Brown rot is widely said to be non symptom forming, this is of course not true, not even slightly! Sparasiss crispa is the suspect here, based more on location or nieghbourhood colonisations than deformation or cavity form.

 

The thing is that even a brown rot can cause symptoms because brown rot is basically causing a cavity of a given shape and dimension so the weight of the crown and its form which remains unchanged (if not dying back) is being pressed down on a smaller volume of fibers or cross sectional area, so symptoms are generated because fibres respond to stress, doesnt matter what causes the stress, stress is stress.

 

If we look at the deformations we can see the hieght and dimension of the brown rot too.

 

Is it a fair assumption that the symptoms only become obvious when a cavity has formed, or the wood is so degraded that it is almost a cavity, as the lignin left before this has retained tensile stress?

Or is that 2 + 2=5?

[RobRainford]

 

Brown rot is widely said to be non symptom forming, this is of course not true, not even slightly! Sparasiss crispa is the suspect here, based more on location or nieghbourhood colonisations than deformation or cavity form.

 

The thing is that even a brown rot can cause symptoms because brown rot is basically causing a cavity of a given shape and dimension so the weight of the crown and its form which remains unchanged (if not dying back) is being pressed down on a smaller volume of fibers or cross sectional area, so symptoms are generated because fibres respond to stress, doesnt matter what causes the stress, stress is stress.

 

If we look at the deformations we can see the hieght and dimension of the brown rot too.

 

And the stress on the remaining wood in oaks causes the buckling

 

I hadn't thought of s. crispa tbh. I've not done much studying on conifer fungi. Although I have some knowledge, it's just a bit basic!

 

Another 12 months and I'll be a lot better. None of this uni stuff to get in my way

 

Good insight on the pine, I'd have never thought that in depth!

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Is it a fair assumption that the symptoms only become obvious when a cavity has formed, or the wood is so degraded that it is almost a cavity, as the lignin left before this has retained tensile stress?

Or is that 2 + 2=5?

 

It takes very little degradation/decay to form a seperation between the wood that is still functioning and the dysfunctional "compartment" so no, extensive decay would not be needed to generate symptoms, but the older the rot colonisation say the more complete the decay and as the tree continues to grow and generate increment the old wood becomes colonised and the tub becomes thinner but with more surface area.

 

We must also bare in mind that deadwood, and decay is a perfectly normal situation in mature trees, and does not in the vast majority of cases indicate an issue. decay is fine, there's no need to panic, we have T/R ratios to guide us, and symptoms to lead us to where the work is required in order to alleviate current stress. meaning that the body language of trees really does tell us what treatments/work needs doing. an accurate and informed reading of the body language of trees is or rather should be the first order of business. all too often remedial work is reccomended without in the first case really taking the time to read fully what is going on, and often we need do so very little to retain trees even in the most seemingly rotten cases.

 

And the stress on the remaining wood in oaks causes the buckling

 

I hadn't thought of s. crispa tbh. I've not done much studying on conifer fungi. Although I have some knowledge, it's just a bit basic!

 

Another 12 months and I'll be a lot better. None of this uni stuff to get in my way

 

Good insight on the pine, I'd have never thought that in depth!

 

In time young skywalker, practice practice and more practice:thumbup1:

[Treecreeper1961]

It takes very little degradation/decay to form a seperation between the wood that is still functioning and the dysfunctional "compartment" so no, extensive decay would not be needed to generate symptoms, but the older the rot colonisation say the more complete the decay and as the tree continues to grow and generate increment the old wood becomes colonised and the tub becomes thinner but with more surface area.

 

We must also bare in mind that deadwood, and decay is a perfectly normal situation in mature trees, and does not in the vast majority of cases indicate an issue. decay is fine, there's no need to panic, we have T/R ratios to guide us, and symptoms to lead us to where the work is required in order to alleviate current stress. meaning that the body language of trees really does tell us what treatments/work needs doing. an accurate and informed reading of the body language of trees is or rather should be the first order of business. all too often remedial work is reccomended without in the first case really taking the time to read fully what is going on, and often we need do so very little to retain trees even in the most seemingly rotten cases.

 

 

 

Fine sentiments and I agree. Learning to read the language is what I aim to do. It's a exciting challenge.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Fine sentiments and I agree. Learning to read the language is what I aim to do. It's a exciting challenge.

 

once mastered this dark art will bring you so much closer to trees, it was really teaching myself this body language that encouraged my fungi lust, the two go hand in hand. That then lead to discovering the different languages and now, well im so into it I cant walk past a tree without interpreting the form.

 

Out of all the stuff ive learned this aspect is the one that floats my boat the most, dont ever ask me a question when out in the woods about a tree! youll never shut me up if you start me off!

[RobRainford]

once mastered this dark art will bring you so much closer to trees, it was really teaching myself this body language that encouraged my fungi lust, the two go hand in hand. That then lead to discovering the different languages and now, well im so into it I cant walk past a tree without interpreting the form.

 

Out of all the stuff ive learned this aspect is the one that floats my boat the most, dont ever ask me a question when out in the woods about a tree! youll never shut me up if you start me off!

 

Hehe, don't I know it

 

It's certainly an ambition of mine to keep learning, college gets In the way a lot of this extra learning!

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Hehe, don't I know it

 

It's certainly an ambition of mine to keep learning, college gets In the way a lot of this extra learning!

 

 

Thats one of the reasons I hate school!

 

they cant teach me the things I want to know:biggrin:

[Treecreeper1961]

here are some more images of compression forks.:001_cool

[ATTACH]57723[/ATTACH]

 

 

Hama,

Is this a compression fork or a tension fork?

Looks like a tension fork with Chinese moustache.

Are there any concerns with the integrity of this particular union?

What tells it apart? The angle and the seem being inward not outward?

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Hama,

Is this a compression fork or a tension fork? co dominant stem with included bark= compresion fork, though I didnt look from above and it does look like it could have the cup formation rather than included bark and therfore be a tension fork

Looks like a tension fork with Chinese moustache. Your probably right, it most likely has the cup form of union.

Are there any concerns with the integrity of this particular union? can you not see it is active and splitting?

What tells it apart? The angle and the seem being inward not outward? co dom stems in close grown forest stands tend to be 20degrees and more acute open grown tension forks much wider in gape.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

remember our pine earlier, well here is another from today, this time Phaeolus