V.T.A symptoms "the chatty trees"

[Treecreeper1961]

I have sen an oak tree recently with some patches of smooth unusual bark which I have not seen very often. I have definitely seen this before but never really given it a great deal of thought.

I have a feeling it may be partly due to mechanical stresses in places but it seems there may be more of a physiological dysfunction type thing going on too.

The out side of the bark had a texture that made me think it may have been dead but the cambium/bark cambium was alive.

If any one can shed some light on it that would be great.

Sorry for the photos not being the best.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

1st shot barn door partial failure

 

two and three bark delaminations (smooth effect) due to overly extended limbs

[Treecreeper1961]

The things that had me questioning what seems to be otherwise obvious bark symptoms of high local tension is

one, it appears in areas that perhaps you may not expect to be under tension (such as on the underside of the lower branch in shot three and high on the main stem),

 

and two, the texture of the bark was kind of soft, not taught and shiny as I usually seem to see.

 

I suppose the tension on the lower branch must be from torsional loading?

[treeseer]

so the smooth (inner?) bark was soft, but had green cambium and white phloem inside. hmmm.

 

perhaps just a bark-digesting fungus, no disorder?

 

not sure of that tension/torsion theory--how exposed to storm winds is the site?

[Treecreeper1961]

There is a reasonable amount of shelter at the level of the tree's current crown height but something has definitely 'happened' to the top of this tree at some point in it's life.

Judging by the over extended limbs it would probably have suffered a bit of lower level wind damage if it was exposed.

A real candidate for some carefully planned retrenchment pruning I reckon.

 

Perhaps I should have paid more attention to the texture of bark on old oaks with stress issues! These patches of smooth bark seem pretty extreme to me.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

so the smooth (inner?) bark was soft, but had green cambium and white phloem inside. hmmm.

 

perhaps just a bark-digesting fungus, no disorder?

 

not sure of that tension/torsion theory--how exposed to storm winds is the site?

 

A photosynthetic layer (green) under the bark is normal, and phloem is white mostly, why the confusion?

 

as for the tension/torsion theory I am surprised you are having difficulty seeing it Guy, this is a text book case, the tree form, and context, everything about it.

 

There is a reasonable amount of shelter at the level of the tree's current crown height but something has definitely 'happened' to the top of this tree at some point in it's life.

Judging by the over extended limbs it would probably have suffered a bit of lower level wind damage if it was exposed.

A real candidate for some carefully planned retrenchment pruning I reckon.

 

Perhaps I should have paid more attention to the texture of bark on old oaks with stress issues! These patches of smooth bark seem pretty extreme to me.

 

You did pay attention, your on all the right lines and your intuition is leading you the right way:thumbup1:

 

retrenchment would need careful thought in this case, think of Halo too

[treeseer]

A photosynthetic layer (green) under the bark is normal, and phloem is white mostly, why the confusion?

 

as for the tension/torsion theory I am surprised you are having difficulty seeing it Guy, this is a text book case, the tree form, and context, everything about it.

 

Just confirming it was alive inside.

 

Which page of the textbook is that on? And are you also in the 17th edition?

 

If there's enough torsion to wring the frikn bark off, would we not expect to see some cracking somewhere? Lack of such observations takes us back to your fave topic...Fungi!...perhaps combined with another causal agent...or for no reason at all.

[Treecreeper1961]

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Just confirming it was alive inside.

 

Which page of the textbook is that on? And are you also in the 17th edition?

 

If there's enough torsion to wring the frikn bark off, would we not expect to see some cracking somewhere? Lack of such observations takes us back to your fave topic...Fungi!...perhaps combined with another causal agent...or for no reason at all.

 

so you think bark plates popping requires thinning of the wall do you guy?

 

no fungi involved till after these entirely mechanically induced symptom, the barn door will have a shallow cavitation involving sapwood an inch or two behind those occlusion rolls, thats about all you can say from the decay angle.

 

Yes, fungi and decay are my fave topic, and Im doing fairly well on it, as youll no doubt find out in due course.

 

I didnt place a smiley on my last post but I will add one now just in good spirit, at your comments:biggrin:

[treeseer]

you think bark plates popping requires thinning of the wall?"

 

? what wall? I'm just suggesting they could pop off due to tree movement or fungal activity or unknown factors.

 

"no fungi involved till after these entirely mechanically induced symptom, the barn door will have a shallow cavitation involving sapwood an inch or two behind those occlusion rolls, thats about all you can say from the decay angle."

 

Yes, the wood decay angle, but I'm suspecting a bark-specific fungus. not betting on it, but if torsion then where are cracks? some kind of bending at play perhaps yes.

 

"Yes, fungi and decay are my fave topic, and Im doing fairly well on it, as youll no doubt find out in due course."

 

Hmm no doubt? careful there; it's a lot easier starting those projects than finishing them, I'll warrant--but I wish you godspeed!

 

"I didnt place a smiley on my last post but I will add one now just in good spirit, at your comments:biggrin:

 

Backatcha brudda