Working Illegilly?

[Bolt]

I don't think you have broken the law as such.

 

Things like g55/2 are engineering recommendations.

 

They weren't passed by parliment, so its not Criminal Law, and its not based on civil or case law either.

 

 

It could be argued though that your employer is in breach of The Heath and Safety at work etc Act 1974. According to my ladybird book of employment law, Section 2 (2) subsection c states that an employers duty (thats an obligation under criminal law) extends to the provision of such information, instruction,training and supervision as is necessary. Its for the well paid gents in wigs to decide what necessary is.

 

I wouldn't go quoting this to your boss though, never goes down very well.

 

How do you get away without being authorised? do you lot never get audited?

Edited February 9, 2011 by Bolt
there was an apostrophe where it shouldn't have been

[bookat]

[

How do you get away without being authorised? do you lot never get audited?

 

Things are very slack here! Truth is I run a small biz. Prior to Jan 2010 I knew nowt about Utility. We we thrown work like it was going out of fashion until mid year invested and had the plug pulled by the contractor for various reasons - none to do with our performance. I have invested in order to attain best practice as is my remit as a boss of small company and that investment has been squandered.

I'm pretty cheesed off that NO and Contractor have profitted from sending us to work without the correct Authorisations and no UA5 and may take legal action hence my questions. It seems to be against their CoP and Hand S act and i'm not the type that takes that lying down. I'm not really the type to sue either but needs must when you've just been scraped off some big wigs shoe.

[Peter]

If you are a subcontractor, then you are at least jointly responsible for your training, or lack of it, if not completely responsible.

 

The contractor you work for has a responsibility to ensure that you have the correct training and qualifications, but they don't have to pay for them.

[bookat]

paid for everthing meself; just never was able to do ua5 here due to lack of trainers.

[Rupe]

I think the legal issue is in the method that you are employed. You say that you sub? Well the is no such thing. If you have a boss that you work for then you employed by him, even if its on a self employed basis. You are clearly not a sub contractor.

 

The fact that you refer to "a boss" or "the boss" suggests that you are under his control. Ultimatly all safety issues are down to him. The legal issue would be more to do with him avoiding employign someoen properly.

 

Just to confirm, how many days a week do you do for him? And how many other companies do you carry out this surveying work for? I'm guessing the answer is five and none respectively?

[Bolt]

Hello everybody . My boss (I sub) has been sending me out surveying power lines recently which I really like but cant get me on a UA5 course (I been doing it 7 months now).

The other day some of the lads blew a fuse on LV and now they are blaming me that I didnt survey the line properly and they could have been killed.

 

I'm worried that I'll be made responsible if anything happens but I feel that I should have been trained by now. The NO did sit us on an internal course recently but i was already working for 4 months by then.

 

Is this illegal and what can I do? I looked at all the H&S policies and it dont seem right but I'm worried that if I say anything i'll loose my job.

 

Any advice?

 

Things are very slack here! Truth is I run a small biz. Prior to Jan 2010 I knew nowt about Utility. We we thrown work like it was going out of fashion until mid year invested and had the plug pulled by the contractor for various reasons - none to do with our performance. I have invested in order to attain best practice as is my remit as a boss of small company and that investment has been squandered.

I'm pretty cheesed off that NO and Contractor have profitted from sending us to work without the correct Authorisations and no UA5 and may take legal action hence my questions. It seems to be against their CoP and Hand S act and i'm not the type that takes that lying down. I'm not really the type to sue either but needs must when you've just been scraped off some big wigs shoe.

 

How confusing.

 

* Do you own your own company? and you worried you may fire youself?

* Do you do surveying as a service you are selling to the Veg management company of WPD, or do you survey for yourself?

* Was it your staff that clashed the LV and brought it down?

* Are your staff telling you that they are not being put to work and supervised properly?

* Are you announcing on a public forum that is seen worldwide that you put them to work even though you were aware that you were all unauthorised and some of you didn't hold nationally accredited qualification.

 

That kind of paints things in a slightly different light.

 

Maybe it would be better if you gave all the facts when asking advice, rather than drip feeding - I am bunking of work to type this, time is money, don't you know.

 

Although, TBH, You may do youself a favour it you said no more. From the info you have given, it should be pretty simple for the interested parties to deduce who you are and you won't be making many friends (I am an expert in not making friends by the way, I take a real pride in it ;-) so I know what I am talking about)

 

As for someone taking legal action against you, I very much doubt that will happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unless someone got injured of course.

[bookat]

The legal issue would be more to do with him avoiding employign someoen properly.

 

Just to confirm, how many days a week do you do for him? And how many other companies do you carry out this surveying work for? I'm guessing the answer is five and none respectively?

 

Yes they sub out 60% of their work to smaller independant businesses like mine. We worked for 7 months with me surveying for my team. I am not Authorised to carry out any of the work I have been doing but have up to UA2.3. I have been trying to get on a UA5 since May and did 3 months surveying prior to this.

I'd like to take legal action just want to know if its right . Utility Career looks over anyway.

[Rupe]

Ah, I think I get it. You dont have a boss then, you are the boss of your team right?

 

You employ your guys and get subcontracted from someone else who you are refering to here as the boss? Am i right so far?

 

So you are surveying for your team, yet you are not qualified to do so! And your team had the near miss/incident? Well your stuffed then!! YOU are responsible for your team if you are employing them (even if they are self employed guys) and it sounds like your company (YOU) is taking on work you are not qualified to do so you would be strung up for it.

 

HAvign said that, the power companies would take major issue with the main contractor for hiring un qualified companies to carry out the works. He would be ultimatly responsible to the power company but you are ultimatly resonsible for the safety of those working for you.

 

You have no chance of winning any legal action agains your "boss". You took on work that you should not be doing. He may be wrong in having let you do this, but you still have no case against him. If one of your guys died then you would be in so deep that he might well be in it too but that didn't happen so no point talking about it.

 

Are the power company fining you or anything like that? Or is it not that serious? I would say if they are that the fine should go to the main contractor and stop there. If he passes it on to you then make up you rown mind. Pay it and walk away or just walk away, but you have no action you can take against him for getting you to do the work in the first place. That was your choice as a company in your own right.

 

So I take back what I said. It sounds like you were a subcontractor after all, if I got the information correct in the end!

 

 

I totally agree that yout Utility career does look over!!!

[Bolt]

 

Yes they sub out 60% of their work to smaller independant businesses like mine. We worked for 7 months with me surveying for my team. I am not Authorised to carry out any of the work I have been doing but have up to UA2.3. I have been trying to get on a UA5 since May and did 3 months surveying prior to this.

I'd like to take legal action just want to know if its right . Utility Career looks over anyway.

 

If you make a claim, it will be a claim through civil courts. you would have to sue WPD or the contractor you were working for.

 

Bookat Vs WPD or Highpower wire services (or whatever thay are called) at the County Court

 

You would have to prove 3 things.

 

1) WPD / Highpower wire services owed you all a duty of care..

 

2) That duty of care was breached.

 

3) You sustained a loss.

 

The burden of proof has to be on a balance of probabilities ( so if you can prove something was 51% likely, and Highpower wire services can only prove 49% its in the bag for you.

 

Thats not going to happen though because Highpower wire services are going to have great legal representation, and believe me WPD will have the best money can buy.

 

As I see it WPD sustained the loss (their powerline damaged).

 

If you did win, you would only get a proportion because you knowingly did work in a way that you knew was wrong.

 

Lawyers all walk away smiling together.

 

Honestly, don't bother.

[TREELINE]

How confusing.

 

* Do you own your own company? and you worried you may fire youself?

* Do you do surveying as a service you are selling to the Veg management company of WPD, or do you survey for yourself?

* Was it your staff that clashed the LV and brought it down?

* Are your staff telling you that they are not being put to work and supervised properly?

* Are you announcing on a public forum that is seen worldwide that you put them to work even though you were aware that you were all unauthorised and some of you didn't hold nationally accredited qualification.

 

That kind of paints things in a slightly different light.

 

Maybe it would be better if you gave all the facts when asking advice, rather than drip feeding - I am bunking of work to type this, time is money, don't you know.

 

Although, TBH, You may do youself a favour it you said no more. From the info you have given, it should be pretty simple for the interested parties to deduce who you are and you won't be making many friends (I am an expert in not making friends by the way, I take a real pride in it ;-) so I know what I am talking about)

 

As for someone taking legal action against you, I very much doubt that will happen.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Unless someone got injured of course.

 

 

Sorry to be secretive but I was sussed - fair cop best stand up.

I will de-guise for your perusal.

 

Yes I own my own company (see left)

 

I survey for a national company under sub contract to feed my fully qualified and EMPLOYED team with work.

 

It was my staff - that incident was mentioned to get a response and was the best way I could think of whilst not mentioning who I really am. Paul Elcoat once advised me not to sign in on here as myself - Hi Paul I don't like your advice or rates.

 

we have not been supervised by our Contract manager at all. we ran ourselves pretty much. He (amongst others) didn't seem to know much of what was going on from day to day and never responded to my requests for training so I approached WPD myself.

I'm announcing on a public forum that I will be seeking legal action as my business has now gone to the wall due to many incidences of negligence and wilful ignorance IMO. Also I'm bored with Arboriculture and want to get back to Tree Surgery.

 

 

I cant give all the facts on here as Steve will drop the thread but pm me if you like with id of course and we can be unpopular for the right reasons.

 

Billy no mates aka Booka T (and the MGs) aka Paul : )