certified splices

[Honey Bros]

Hi Guys

 

I saw for myself today, the certificate from Yale Cordage the guy we use for our eyesplicing had received.

 

But, there is no certificate we can pass on, to say it is eyespliced by Yale factory apporoved personnel.

 

This is a very grey area, which we would like to be cleared up also.

[Bundle 2]

Hi Guys

 

I saw for myself today, the certificate from Yale Cordage the guy we use for our eyesplicing had received.

 

But, there is no certificate we can pass on, to say it is eyespliced by Yale factory apporoved personnel.

 

This is a very grey area, which we would like to be cleared up also.

 

It would be acceptable to supply a written statement with the rope if you have indeed supplied a certified splice...I cant see the problem myself....

[Arbocop]

hi all

 

the inspector was entirly correct to fail or not inspect hand splices.

 

if you wish to use your hand splices for the comps thtas fine they are classified as sport not work so if it were safe you could climb on a bit of rope you spun your self.

 

with regard to work, your rope is classed as PPE and the type it is means its is critical to life, so the regs say it MUST conform to a reliant CE standard OR be manufactured under a quality assurance standard.

 

with referance to LOW stretch ropes there is at this time not CE standard for the spice, but only strength requirments for for terminations in relation to the ropes strength classiifcation. so what manufactures do is have their factory splices tested as part of that rope standard.

 

certain companies such as new england yale and edelrid did/do operate a QA system were they disect splices and strength test them and 'authorise' the quality of the splice. however the companies are becoming less inclined to do this as it conflicts with their busness plan in terms of selling rope with splices @adding value'

 

so were does this leave splices depending on them to 'authorise' and controll what is going on' well frankly up sh**t creak. so what needs to happen is a quality assurance standard forthose splices. without it the law is clear you do not use them at work.

 

now thats not to say that enthusiastic and very skilled people are not producing good splices and indeed some are pushing that specific skill forward and aiding the manufactures in developing new ropes but like all things if you do it well and you are confident then step up and be counted, be tested .

 

as for the loler inspector, i think the bigger problem is not the chap telling you the cold hard truth of the regs that may not sit well but is the truth, the bigger problem is the crane inspector looking at your rope access gear and having no idear about what they are looking at at all. that is a danger.

 

just a final point IMHO the CE marking should not get involved in standards for splices beyond their strength as that would stifle development, let the manufacturers do that work,

 

there you go

 

cheers

[Ropey]

Interesting stuff, we have different rules and Reg down our end of the world however what you say about the rope regs is correct, there are standards that rope manufacturers build their product to be it British "BS" European (EN or CE) or American (ANSCI)

 

When it comes to terminations a splice is no different to a knot is it not...

 

There is no standard for splices as there is none for knots but there is instructions issued by rope manufacturers on "how to" on both.

 

So cut the slice of and tie a knot and there would be no issue....... Pointless really when it has been proven time and time again that a splice maintain a greater % of the certified strength of the rope than a knot.

 

Common sense need to prevail in these situations if there is no standard to meet then when should we need to jump through hoops in the first place. Safety in in the best interest of the person on the end of the rope and responsibly must lie with them.

[tokaloch]

So it would seem that we are all agreed that their is no standard to splice to or to inspect to

So should we all stop using spliced eyes and revert to knots and if so do we have to get the knots certified and inspected ? I wish someone from say the HSE would give some guidance on this

[Jamie]

As a splicer (and an avid one at that) the main problem i can see is people taking short cuts when splicing them, using the wrong splice type on the wong rope construction / fibre.

 

The splices that i've drastically altered i've had tested. For all my non standard splices i keep records of how they were spliced and more importantly WHY i deviated from the manufacturers recommended splice. Every splice i do for a given cord / application combination is as close to identical as humanly possible.

 

The manufacturer can only offer their support to their products, what we do with them however is a whole new ball game.

 

Like i've mentioned before i know a splicer with a NATO contract. He redesigned a Samson splice for some 80mm eight strand rope froma six meter splice down to a one meter splice. Thats pretty good going, picking up a few hundred ton on a redesignned splice. The manufacturers are not the be all and end all of rope technology.

 

Slightly off topic, I've heard here people advocating using HMPE (Dyneema / Spectra) as prussic cords. Never mind which splice to use to fabricate a termination, i'd be more concerned about the low melting point.

 

I'll stop now

 

Jamie

[Lancstree]

"...the bigger problem is the crane inspector looking at your rope access gear and having no idear about what they are looking at at all. that is a danger."

 

That is my concern with our inspector from zurich insurance. IMO he doesn't fall into the definition of a 'competent person' as he has to ask what each item is when doing the inspection!

[Alex]

Try finding an inspector who has the gonads to stand by his quals.....LOLER inspectors should understand the " anatomy " of splicing if they are to inspect AND deliver fair assessments of this part of a climbers eqpt...IMO.

 

 

Here here

[Alex]

so then what as an indusrty should we do.

 

As arb cop kev rightly points out the rope companys are shying away. They all offer splicing instutions for their rope products, and splicer worth their whipping follow these for each rope type from each manufuture.

 

I myself splice, but will not readly up until now would not splice for some one I was not working with or inspected gear for. So I could monitor my work so to speak. Some splicer will put the CE number (nothing but the test house number ) on their marking this is the ce for the rope not the splice, so would a loler inspector know that? umm.

 

Back to the point.

 

Option one. No hand splicing

 

Option two. we form some sort of industry lead Guild of splicers.

 

Option three we push Lantra and NPTC for a level 3 qualification for this ever growing and usefull skill.

 

Please vote now.

[Tully]

thats it in a nut shell then