Meripilus on Oak...

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

I don't think you've been un-proffesional and did not mean to imply that. Personally I would prefer to be more reserved with my opinion if I had not seen the tree and the site in the flesh. A single photograph does not always tell us the whole story.

 

Opinions will differ and it doesn't mean that one person is wrong or another is wrong

 

If it was my client in a situation like this I would chat about what they wanted. If they want to fell the tree then it would be easy enough to justify that decision based on what we have already seen and I'd give them a price to fell it. If they would like to keep it or want a little more information to make their minds up, I would do a bit more investigating and charge accordingly.

 

I don't think your wrong in your approach here just different. I do think that you sometimes seem to be quick to make a diffinative statement about a tree in situations where I'd be keen to explore a little more.

 

I know your situation/client base is very different to my own experiences, IME people really dont want to hear that they need a £150.00-£250.00 report, a £350-£450 days airspading investigation, only to be told after that the tree is dying and has quiet severe root decay, that the tree is in decline and will probably not last more than 10-20 years anyways. So it needs to be felled/reduced at a cost ranging anywhere in the region of £500-£2000.

 

I very much doubt that it would. Its a lot harder to justify keeping a tree with any kind of root decay fungi than it is too justify retention.

 

I may be confidant, maybe Im overly confidant in my opinions? I do know one thing, Ive stood by many a tree, with many an "expert" and held my own and very good arguments, for/against etc etc etc I am confidant, yes, and with good cause, I work hard to be good at what i do, to know what fungi do what, to know when a tree is goosed, and when its got a fighting chance.

 

i am not however stupid, and wanted to go see the tree myself to help out with a second opinion, one that was based on the real deal, not a photographic representation and best advice on the evidence presented.

 

I know what merip CAN do to a cerris, i reckon its far worse than on robur, i do not know why as yet, but it definatley seems to go through cerris quickly IME, maybe the heart wood of cerris is less durable? i dunno and admit that which i do not as yet know.

 

but I am told the tree is thinning, has meripilus, and on THAT basis, I offered advice, to fell it, with fair justification, or to potentialy salvage the situation with a decent report and if reccomended in report, further investigation via an airspade which would be the next step, thermo is an option to asses the viability of the functional wood remaining too, but the airspade will tell us criticaly what physical state of degradation the root plate/rootcrown is in.

 

This man, has asked for our advice, he is rightly concerned and feels this descision is beyond him, dont anyone be knocking me for having the confidence and balls to stand up and offer a realistic set of options and to be certain of it.

 

There are enough uncertainties and ditherings in this business as it is, and 10-20 ton of turkey oak on a compromised root plate is not the place to be dithering.

[Bundle 2]

@CZHey.....The AAIS has long been in the process of trying to get the data set we lack in one place.

Trees with meripilus are selected and you can get further info from the AAIS. Brian Greig is the contact

Alice Holt Lodge

Wrecclesham

Surry

GU10 4LH

tel:01420 22022

 

email: [email protected]

 

 

Although some months since this was brought to my attention, I would still expect you to

be able to get a positive response from this organisation. If you gotta drop it, make it count!

[arb culture]

Even saying.."Id never recommend on pic evidence" and then proceeding to do just that seems daft frankly..You know who you are...tut tut!

 

It would appear that several different individuals on here (including me) thought this comment was aimed at them.

 

So I'd suggest that in future if you have something to say in criticism of someone, make it clear who you are talking about - it will save a lot of confusion and allow people the chance to either defend themselves or to clear up a misunderstanding.

[czhey]

Thanks for all the replies, i have been reading just not sure what to reply

 

It does have to be said...I don't, personally, think you have said anything you shouldn't have hama. I am very much with you and Arbculture on this one. If you feel that the client will reject the advice you and other professionals on here have shared, namely carry out further tests, seek further consultation/advice or remove the tree, then it would be irresponsible of you not to at least demonstrate to the client the reasons behind your rec's, after all they are employing you as an Arb specialist to make a professional judgement.

 

If the tree has no considerable targets and the targets which may be present are appropriately managed, then maybe you could justify retaining the tree as a habitat feature.

 

 

Sorry i should have said i was not asked to look at this tree, i was working i their garden and noticed the merip- i said i am not sure of its affects on oak, i'll try and find out for you, and pointed out the 'thin' crown.

 

I know your situation/client base is very different to my own experiences, IME people really dont want to hear that they need a £150.00-£250.00 report, a £350-£450 days airspading investigation, only to be told after that the tree is dying and has quiet severe root decay, that the tree is in decline and will probably not last more than 10-20 years anyways. So it needs to be felled/reduced at a cost ranging anywhere in the region of £500-£2000.

 

i am not however stupid, and wanted to go see the tree myself to help out with a second opinion, one that was based on the real deal, not a photographic representation and best advice on the evidence presented.

 

I know what merip CAN do to a cerris, i reckon its far worse than on robur, i do not know why as yet, but it definatley seems to go through cerris quickly IME, maybe the heart wood of cerris is less durable? i dunno and admit that which i do not as yet know.

 

but I am told the tree is thinning, has meripilus, and on THAT basis, I offered advice, to fell it, with fair justification, or to potentialy salvage the situation with a decent report and if reccomended in report, further investigation via an airspade which would be the next step, thermo is an option to asses the viability of the functional wood remaining too, but the airspade will tell us criticaly what physical state of degradation the root plate/rootcrown is in.

 

This man, has asked for our advice, he is rightly concerned and feels this descision is beyond him, dont anyone be knocking me for having the confidence and balls to stand up and offer a realistic set of options and to be certain of it.

 

There are enough uncertainties and ditherings in this business as it is, and 10-20 ton of turkey oak on a compromised root plate is not the place to be dithering.

 

 

too right about the money- thats all it comes down to with many people and trees.

 

I am very grateful for your offer to visit the tree, I just don't feel you should be using your time to try and help a customer of mine who won't appreciate what you are doing for them... i will PM you the location of the tree and you can visit (for your own interest) if you are in the area, but its the wrong end of herts for you.

 

Bundle- I couldn't see anything on the AAIS website. I will email.

 

 

 

 

Saw the customer again and she seemed to imply she wouldn't spend any money unless it starts looking sicker/dies. I have decided to email her saying something along the lines of: tree may not be safe, recommend air spade investigation at rough cost of XX... and just explain there is little info about it on oak- but give some info of what the effects can be on beech (ie say the tree could fall over while it is still alive).

 

 

 

Thanks for the opinions

Charlie.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Right, After this post I will be trying as hard as possible to refrain from entering any debates, or answering querries on decay issues, it isnt worth the rhubarb that goes with it! As from jan 2011 i will have pro indemnity and will be avaliable for this privatley, should you feel you want MY advice. this aint an advert! just stating why i am not posting along these lines, if my will can stand to not post!

 

 

 

 

 

[arb culture]

Right, After this post I will be trying as hard as possible to refrain from entering any debates, or answering querries on decay issues, it isnt worth the rhubarb that goes with it!

 

I know exactly what you mean, but I bet you won't be able to resist on occasion. Especially when you see people being given duff advice.

 

Give us a shout when your insurance is in place and I'll try to send some work your way if you want.

 

I haven't forgotten about that weekend by the way, I'm just too busy with family stuff at the moment. Any chance of a midweek at some point, or are you still tied up with work?

[Charles Hey Arborist]

wow, a few posters with some interest in this one!

 

Crown, well the meripilus is (yes its merip!) is into the roots for sure, and well into them, the tree is in terminal decline, though only through transport dysfunction in the short term, reduction may assist the tree but for me, in THIS instance its not worth the effort, IMO, sometimes you just have to admit defeat.

 

hen of the woods well it looks NOTHING like merip, if you have seen merip, youll know when it isnt! grifola is nowhere near as common as merip, not even on oak.

 

Little is scientificaly known about the effects of meripilus on Oak, but I found one last week that was windblown and fruiting merip heavily, and the darker (pathogenic suspect) form, as apposed to the suspected lighter saprobic form.

 

As for tim, and the beech. Well hang on, do you know what sylvatica means? and Oak is NOT a woodland tree, its natural home is the open structured pastureland, where it fairs much better, being a high light requiring species, thats why haloing has been perfected.

Beech on the other hand, well the name for a start! also prefers a little shade, though not too much, but it doesnt like full sun, not like the oak and the ash anyways.

 

Hate it when Tonys right...

 

Tree fell over in the recent winds. NOTHING solid left on the roots, all the major roots were soft enough to stick your finger in with no effort! Seems Merip on Q. cerris is not a good combo! Pic to follow.

[Charles Hey Arborist]

hopefully pics work

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

when one has the patience of a saint, eventually all comes good.

 

Thats why i am confidant, I am just that good, that may suck for the rest but hey ho, not my problem! lmao:lol:

Edited November 30, 2013 by Tony Croft aka hamadryad

[swinny]

Haha excellent. More threads like this please