Problems with planning

[davey_b]

Not in conservation area and no tpo's.

 

The area where the trees are is at the side of the barn and was shown as part of the site on the original planning application. I have been talking to the council I just want to know what they can insist on. We would like to have an area there with nice mature and semi mature trees on it but still have it usable for things like dogs running about and swing set for kids. They seem to just want a dense woodland there which is not really what it is at the moment. It's 40 mature trees on an area 50m long by 25m wide with maybe another 30 or 40 self seeded saplings that are about 10cm diameter at 1.5m. Surely they can't insist that we put back more trees than we cut down?

[tommer9]

If its not in a conservation area and there are no TPOs then there are no restrictions. I cannot see how the council are insisting on anything if this IS the case? The situation becomes more confusing at every turn....

[davey_b]

I think because it is a condition of our planning we can't just do what we want.

[Bundle 2]

They cannot have agreed Planning permission without the removal of (did you say a dozen or so) trees? Permission will have have included provision for this if that is the case. ( And not just your take on it) I think you must be misreading or relaying the info incorrectly.

Refer the Planning and conditions as they are on the permission granted...

[davey_b]

There is a building on the site that we are renovating. We can do that without touching any trees. There is an area at the side of the building that has trees on it. One of our conditions says we need "written permission from the council planning department to remove trees".

[Bundle 2]

There is a building on the site that we are renovating. We can do that without touching any trees. There is an area at the side of the building that has trees on it. One of our conditions says we need "written permission from the council planning department to remove trees".

 

Well then, there it is I would say! Planning does not apparently rely on removal of trees,. I am surprised that they would wish to curtail further the usage of the woodland but reading between the lines ( I am no expert ) by allowing renovation by way of granting planning, they take the view that a change of usage is the obvious consequence. By making it a condition of planning that you seek permission for the subsequent removal of trees, it seems the LPA feels the duty to protect amenity value is so served.

Ask yourself what the end gain from removing the trees is...If it coincides with the buildings renovation and usage, I suggest you did not submit a proposal that satisfies your needs. The LPA has agreed to renovation and protects against "change of use"

I still think your best way forward is as has been said several times now in this one thread Im afraid....

"Talk to your council people"

[renewablejohn]

I would suggest speaking to a good land agent. It sounds to me that the council have made a mistake on the full planning and are know trying to close the door with retrospective action. A land agent will be able to advise whether the council are within their rights or whether they are trying it on.

[davey_b]

We have spoken to the council and will continue to speak to them I just want to try and work out what our rights are as they've not been too flexible thus far.

 

I'm thinking now that we leave the trees that are there as we don't need to remove them. There are some self seeded saplings that I would like to take out and I'm sure when we had a tree survey done the guy said something about the definition of a tree. I forget what he said but I think he said anything less than a certain diameter at 1.5m wasn’t counted as a tree. Thus if this is the case then it would follow that we could take these out without needing permission from the council? If that is the case what is maximum diameter of saplings that we could take out before we need to seek permission?

[Bundle 2]

I agree, it is quite a worrying thought that the conditions could be held over your heads so to speak, post renovation. Presumably. once works are signed off, the conditions are still to be met.

I would think it might be worth getting some legal assistance, if only to ascertain what the relative party positions are likely to be should you wish to flex your muscles so to say, and remove trees as might be reasonably expected as they impinge and encroach on dwellings. This I say also because it seems the council planners

have claimed ( according to previous post by yourself DaveyB) that the trees represent a "woodland" and although not protected by land charges, are defined in terms (by legal precedent) that might make the renovation, itself bound by conditions related to the renovation (conditions) the sort that would make removal of any saplings against the condition.

In fact, I wonder if you couldn't refer the planners conditions. citing an unduly onerous requirement re: the trees/woodland in connection with the planning app/consent on the grounds they appear to have overeached in the assessment of the nature (definition)of the wooded area....?

Either way....

Edited September 26, 2010 by Bundle 2

[Giles Hill]

Planning conditions relating to retention of trees / new landscaping normally state the number of years for which they apply. They normally say something along the lines of 'if a tree fails or is is removed within 5 years then it shall be replaced'. Therefore the condition only applies for the period stated, so the trees are not protected by the planning permission after the 5 year (or whatever) period.

 

It may not be as simple as that though and a lot will depend on what the current land designation is. You mentioned that the planners said the area was woodland? If this is the case then your rights to use the land are different to what they would be if it were residential land. In any event, the Local Authority can make whatever conditions they beleive to be appropriate and they have powers to enforce them.

 

You can apply to have planning conditions varied or omitted, but by the sounds of it you might be best looking at ways of satisfying the condition in such a way that the area is designed to meet your needs whilst in their eyes being a woodland, rather than a dog-walking field.

 

I'd suggest working up scheme that is designed and managed to enhance the woodland ecology of the area, rather than just creating a sterile plantation. Your proposal might include clearings for habitat diversity (dog walking), a managed woodland ride to encourage butterflies (dog walking), ponds, coppices etc.

 

I spend most of my life drawing up schemes to satisfy planning conditions and if possible finding the middle ground between local authority requirements and developer's wishes.

 

If this kind of thing is helpful, it would be easier to advise you if you post the exact wording of the entire condition(s).

Edited September 26, 2010 by Giles Hill