Failure of the Anne Frank Tree

[sean freeman]

Well perhaps, certainly if a barrister has reservations about a certain position being posited by a professional consultant they might try and associate examples (of what they believe to be evidence) of such professional opinion not being supported by later events. But this is always likely in court, how convincing expert witness evidence is does often rest on how they present themselves in a specific case with specific issues....tort law (at least in the UK and Australia) tends to (IMO) have a major influence on how judgements are finally reached.

[sean freeman]

But what use are WE as "experts" to the public if we get them to pay us a small fortune to do whatever work and it fails?

 

whats the point in offering to save a tree if you then say well you cant get back to me when it all goes pete tong?

 

if your builder said well i will build you this house, but if the back wall falls out, well mate, dont call me eah!

 

No wonder "other industries laugh at us"

 

A couple of points here;

 

I'm not sure that an Arborist would have been called upon to design the suport frame, sure they would have been invovled in working out aspects of its connection to the tree and protection of soil and roots where the piles were driven in.

 

I'm fairly sure that those who were asked to provide expert opinion would have been clear about what could be observed and assessed regarding the degree of dysfunction at the time of the assessment.

 

Just how any potential liability (repair costs for the walls etc) plays out will I suspect have more to do with the Dutch legal system than any lay view (mine included) of who should be 'responsible'.

 

I know we can as a profession be a bit precious about how we are percieved by other professions we interact with, engineers, ecologists, botanists, barristers etc... Personally I try hard to take other professionals as I find them and hope they do me the same courtesy...not denying that the way evens like this get reported can have a very negative impact in many ways...and that can be difficult to deal with at the coal face.

[Catweazle]

But what use are WE as "experts" to the public if we get them to pay us a small fortune to do whatever work and it fails?

 

whats the point in offering to save a tree if you then say well you cant get back to me when it all goes pete tong?

 

if your builder said well i will build you this house, but if the back wall falls out, well mate, dont call me eah!

 

No wonder "other industries laugh at us"

 

Do other industries laugh at you ? I doubt it. Trees aren't as easy to predict as concrete or steel. As a bystander ( the "public" if you like ) I consider Tree surgeons to be like medical surgeons - they do the best they can but sometimes the patient dies.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

We shall see what happens over the next few months to a year, I think the high profile of this case will be damaging.

[David Humphries]

Amsterdam sits on 30 - 40 meters of sand.

 

Anchorage of a structure like that must have been challenging to say the least.

 

 

 

 

.

[sean freeman]

I think the high profile of this case will be damaging

 

I fear that you may be right.

 

Anchorage of a structure like that must have been challenging to say the least

 

Yes, but it would seem they managed to secure it to the point where the 'welds' failed rather than the piles being pulled out. I feel for the chap who made those welds they will be copping some flak I suspect.

[treequip]

I fear that you may be right.

 

 

 

Yes, but it would seem they managed to secure it to the point where the 'welds' failed rather than the piles being pulled out. I feel for the chap who made those welds they will be copping some flak I suspect.

 

Hmmmmn

 

Supporting a structure that size with steels is possible but looking at the basal area of the tripod I think it was more of a placebo for the public than a serious attempt to support the tree. I don’t think the frame ever had a prayer of preventing a failure.

 

Looking at the base of the tripod I can see no evidence of failed welds, in fact I can’t see any means of anchoring it to the ground at all. Anyone know how it was fastened down?

 

 

 

http://www.annefrank.org/ImageVault/Images/id_8336/width_220/compressionQuality_80/scope_0/height_220/aspectRatio_1/ImageVaultHandler.aspx

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/images/2010/0823/259729_1.jpg?ts=1282596646

 

[Bundle 2]

"Supporting a structure that size with steels is possible but looking at the basal area of the tripod I think it was more of a placebo for the public than a serious attempt to support the tree. I don’t think the frame ever had a prayer of preventing a failure."

 

I think you may well be right...

 

There is another way of looking at this I guess.

" No publicity is bad publicity! "

[sean freeman]

Looking at the base of the tripod I can see no evidence of failed welds, in fact I can’t see any means of anchoring it to the ground at all. Anyone know how it was fastened down?

 

It was apparently welded not bolted based on info from Wolter Kok who works in the Netherlands http://www.treespotter.nl/

 

I suspect that to really get reliable info you might have to try and contact someone who worked on the tree. You could try Nicolaas Verloop at Pius Floris, but I suspect they have everyday matters of making ends meet and dealing with inquiring Arbs from other countries might be low on their radar.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Having just seen that shot of the failure point how did this tree get past its annual assesment?

 

it was cleary white rotted tthrough and through?

 

Am I right in thinking that this tree was nder the SIA tree statics method of assesment?

 

I saw that it was declared able to withstand 200% at force 11 during winter and 100% during summer (in leaf) i am asuming this is a SIA terminology?