Heave

[redmoosefaction]

I've got a client who wants me to take down a black poplar (Standing stem - pollarded frequently) and a medium sized italian poplar, they are about 10m from properties. He is concerned that the owners of the houses may get heave in a few years time.

 

He was told 8 years ago to take them down in stages, I've heard this was a bit of a money making scheme dreamt up by someone.

 

Will there be heave?

 

He wants me to put it down in writing that there will be no damage. I don't think I can do that, as I am unsure, and I'm not qualified.

 

Any ideas?

[armchairarborist]

get the soil tested to check for londons famous shrinkable clay, might not be that bad..

[Frankie Lawrence]

Bit odd are they dangerous to the properties?

[Ian Flatters]

Root inspection?

[Paul Barton]

Do they pre-date the houses?

[arb culture]

Please don't put anything in writing for this guy - it sounds like he is trying to stitch you up with some huge liability issues!

 

Black poplars at 10m from a house - of course he's bloomin concerned about heave.

 

My advice - get someone in with the proper insurance and experience to write his report for him.

[common lime]

I thank heaven that I do not do subs anymore.

 

You will find the heave calculation in BRE Digest 298 this should be done by a structural engineer. They will require you to ID the tree and estimate its age but they will have to do the rest of the calculation with the help of soil analysis.

 

That way it will be their PI insurance at risk and not yours:001_rolleyes:

[common lime]

It has been so long I have state the wrong BRE number it is BRE 412 Desiccation in clay soils.

[redmoosefaction]

Please don't put anything in writing for this guy - it sounds like he is trying to stitch you up with some huge liability issues!

 

Black poplars at 10m from a house - of course he's bloomin concerned about heave.

 

My advice - get someone in with the proper insurance and experience to write his report for him.

 

The black poplar has been knocked back hard for years, it's just a standing stem.

 

It's not his house he's concerned about.

 

And yes I will get some one in to write the report...

 

I was looking at another thread on heave.. someone quoted that if the tree dies naturally - you would have to deal with the consequences anyway.

 

Oh and by the way the houses were built in 1998, so I would suspect the house's should have proper foundations anyway

[common lime]

Sorry, I did not read you first post!

 

Yes you are correct, taking a tree down in stages to prevent heave is a complete waste of time. The soil will make the same level of recovery no matter how many stages you take the tree down in and this finally recovery will be delayed by doing the work in stages. Therefore the final fix to any insured structures will also be delayed.

 

I would also suggest before your client commissions an engineer's report, he should first find a legal opinion! Given that if your client is considered a layman in regards to clay shrinkage subsidence he might not own a duty of care to his neighbours. Because as a layman he has no reasonable foreseeability into his actions of removing the tree, thus no liability were heave damage occur to the neighbouring properties. Also were heave damage occur to these properties and he is a layman then the ABI (Association of British Insurance) Root Agreement kicks in and he would not be held libel for the cost of heave damage on the first occasion.

 

Finally checkout his household policy to see if he is covered for heave damage to his house.

 

I am going have nightmares about cracking now!