Taking on an apprentice

[gibbon]

Does anyone have any experience of employing an apprentice? I have been asked to take one on and would like to know how the scheme works?

 

We have had inhouse trainees in the past but this is part of a college scheme. The college were unable to give me any useful information at all when I asked for details.

 

I would like to know whether there is a set wage for a 16 year old apprentice? Who pays for training, ppe? Do I pay when they are at college? How often do they go to college? are there grants available to employers? everything really.

 

All I could get from the college was that he goes in for the 1st week and learns about health and safety. The 2nd week he gos in gets cs 30, I asked when this is and was told "when they show commitment, we cant give you a timetable. He might not like it and it would be a waste of money". Thats all the info they gave me.

 

He then told me "we give him an NVQ too. Do you know what an NVQ is? have you got one?" I felt like telling them to stick it as they were so unhelpfull but I know that its not this lads fault, he just wants a break.

 

I would like to think that there is some structured scheme out there and would like to find out any info.

[Dean Lofthouse]

I took on a lad and voluntarily put him into college.

 

He does 1 week a month at college over an 18 month period and comes out with every ticket

 

The college will come out and assess you Health and Safety wise, accident book, service record book, look at all your equipment to make sure you are loler, cossh and riddor compliant etc etc

 

Right down to having a fire extinguisher in the motor and one in the workshop

 

You have to pay him I think £95 and set him on the books properly, I have got mine down as £120 and working three days a week.

 

You'll have to have a H&S policy etc etc

 

Its all a pain in the butt at first but over the last 12 months I am getting there and it makes me wonder how bad "I" was paper work wise

 

Everything seems quite easy now it's just getting everything in place to start with

[gibbon]

Thanks Dean. Paper work should be no probs, I hope and our guys are all paye anyway. I would have thought the college would give some sort of employers pack but they don't. They will not pay for essentiall tickets either other than cs 30. I think an apprenticeship is a good idea, but to spend money training a 16 year old seems a lot riskier than say a 19-21 year old. I am really struggeling to see whats in it for me at this stage?

[Dean Lofthouse]

Mine pay for all tickets

 

He's at Askham Bryan at York, it might be worth ring them and asking if the scheme they run is a national thing..

 

It's this one

 

Askham Bryan College - Our Courses

[David Humphries]

Matt,

I have an apprentice who's on salary.

His course & contract will be between 12 & 18 months, depending on how long all the tickets & modules take.

 

He goes to Capel Manor, which has so far produced a farily rigid sylubus & itinery.

 

If you can get yourself up to the Celebration of Trees at CM on the 23rd/24th of April, you would get all the info you will need.

 

I haven't got any of the contract/paper work at hand, but I can get you contact details if that is helpful.

 

 

Our lad was under 19 when he enrolled, so fees for the course were met by goverment.

 

Please don't quote me, but I believe the minimum wage for 16 yr olds is in the region of £94 per week.

 

He came as a weeks work experience 18 months ago, and he kept in contact and an oportunity arose to bring him in as an apprentice.

He's been with us since October.

 

Here's a few shots........

 

Last one is him coming full circle a couple of days back, as he shows the ropes to young work experience lad.

 

.

Edited March 20, 2010 by Monkey-D

[gibbon]

Looks like he's got a very good opportunity with you there David.

 

I've had issues with my local college in the past so I'm not suprised with this set up. The fact that on an 18 month course he only gets pa6, cs30 and first aid concerns me. I may chat to his dad and see if they would consider looking at a different college. Both yours and Deans set ups look far superior.

Edited March 20, 2010 by gibbon

[Andrew Reed]

I have been researching this subject lately. If the arrangement is aligned with the 12 to 18 month long National Apprentice Scheme, I think it works like this:

 

The apprentice would be aligned to the Trees and Forestry Modern Aprenticeship scheme. It has defined objectives for thoery training, practical training, and experience. See lantra web site for details.

 

The employer takes advise from the local college or/and the county/area National Apprenticeship scheme advisor. The employer, and the local college strike up the arrangement between them to align with the scheme and who is reponsible for what. the college provides free of charge a fair amount of the training required. NVQs and some equipment training. The employer I think has to pay/arrange/undertake some of the apprentice training. Also certain objectives in the work have to be provided.

Sometimes the college takes the lead with the selection and interview process, sometimes the employer. In my area the County Council are involved as well. CC or college may even conduct much of the selection for the employer.

Employer takes on the apprentice as an employee and pays them a wage.

In the first month the National Apprentice Scheme give the employer approx £1500 to help with wages. In the third month the employer gets about £1000 as a second and final wages grant. In my area the County Council provide a separate grant to the employer to buy equipment (PPE/Saw/Climbing gear)and to help pay costs/wages while the apprentice is training. This CC grant can be approx £2,500.

The employer allows the apprentice one day a week for maybe 22 weeks to attend college for NVQs, and allow time for other training such as CS30, 31, Safe use of Pesticides, chipper etc. as is relevent to Forestry or Arboriculture. I think the employer provides paid holiday as well, but probably not sick pay.

 

The employer gets 4 days a week of a young lad, who admittedly is an overhead/liability for the first month, and is barely useful for the the 2nd month, with I guess increasing usefulness over time. maybe by month three you just about have a useful groundsman normally worth £65 a day for the 4 days a week you have the apprentice available. And by month 8 the apprentice could be up the tree under your instruction.

 

The representatives in the National Apprenticeship Scheme Gov department are keen to meet interested employers, they visit you.

 

As for wage, well you could abopt the govenment minimum, which is somewhere aropund £75 to £95 a week. Which in my view is not enough for this industry to get the right level of motovation for hard work and right type of person, except maybe for coppicing/weaving or similar very low margin work/rural craft. On these wages, unless the apprentice lives at home funded by bank of mum and dad, then I don't see it being a very sustainable arrangement. Particularly as the colleges are this year withdrawing assistance with accommodation costs for apprentices. Hardworking/grafter young men I suspect will not work their boots off for a few pounds more that unemployment benefit. I think the £80 a week is aimed at different type of worker.

 

I did hear of a company in the south of England that has employed apprentices with a college in Dorchester, and I think they paid them £135 a week. Some large national businesses have a mimimum wage policy, which seems to be around £187 week for apprentices. I also heard that for apprentices in remote areas of Scotland, wages have to be higher because of the transport and, local living challanges. I have not thought through all the PAYE tax, NI, etc implications, but personally I think £50 a day for the days they are actually working is a reasonable starting point, in effect £200 a week. Where the Gov Grant of £2.5K pays for the first 13 weeks, thereafter the apprentice has to be productive earn his £50 a day. Also, if the apprentice is good and the employer does not want him going elsewhere, then review the wage when the apprentice becomes increasingly useful.

 

Bear in mind: if an apprentice has to live in a bedsit/loggings near your yard in the sticks so they can be there at 7 in the morning, then it costs them £80 - £95 a week for a room. Min housing allowance figure for my area is £123 a week. Job Seeker Allowance is I think about £52 a week. Hardworking young people, need a lot of calories so they have enough energy, that too costs more that for other types of work. I think a McJob would pay about 5.10 per hour (about £190 week), so some incentive to work their boots off in all weathers for this industry might be needed.

 

But hey, I am not an employer, and new to this. What what would i know. Just guessing and learning.

 

Good Luck.

[Andrew Reed]

Thanks Dean. Paper work should be no probs, I hope and our guys are all paye anyway. I would have thought the college would give some sort of employers pack but they don't. They will not pay for essentiall tickets either other than cs 30. I think an apprenticeship is a good idea, but to spend money training a 16 year old seems a lot riskier than say a 19-21 year old. I am really struggeling to see whats in it for me at this stage?

 

From my recent experiences with a 17 year old going through CS30/31, I would agree 16 is maybe too young. I also notice the 12 week Arboriculture course in Guildford is for over 19 year olds only.

[Big 'Ammer]

I took a lad on and put him through NVQ Trees and Timber at Askham Bryan, like Dean.

 

The thing I liked about the course was that they paid for the training.

 

The paperwork was reasonably straightforward and they come out on site and check what your doing every so often.

 

I used to pay him agricultural wages apprentice rates and then top it up a bit when he shaped well.

 

Its roughly 3/4 of a basic wage, but they are only at work 3/4 of the time, 1/4 is spent at college.

 

You have to persevere though, it costs you more to employ them than you get out of them for a year or so.

 

But with my calm nature and guiding hand he's making a good tree worker.

 

He's doing cs41 on Weds.

[jpbeaver]

gibbon is it myerscough college?