What will an ash woodland look like in 10 years time?

[Muddy42]

On 01/02/2024 at 13:55, Amarus said:

I did say technically. See 

Sites of special scientific interest: managing your land - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

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When you need consent for a proposed operation or management change on land in a SSSI and how to apply.

I have not yet heard anyone being actually taken for a ride as such but the powers are there. If NE want to make an example of someone they do have the means. Given how the media focuses on green issues and knowing some of the zealots in NE personally this risk would be too much for me on top of the ash problems but others might have different appetite.

 

My only experience of this is areas of Scotland that have suffered from phytophthora ramorum outbreaks to larch plantations.  Here if you had forestry within a targeted exclusion zone, the FC would identify the disease (often with helicopters) and would then issue a felling order to fell all larch trees within 200m of an outbreak within two months.  In practice, huge flexibility was given to the timing and forestry plans (so you could fell a practical amount) and various grants (felling restocking etc.) were available. I don't think the landowners complained, but it is sad that we now don't have larch as a diversifier against sitka spruce and other conifers that look pretty similar.

 

Obviously this is different from dead ash because the timber has a commercial value.

 

 

[5thelement]

On 31/01/2024 at 22:54, Amarus said:

If you read the previously mentioned research on resistance and survival rates what you are looking at is less than 5% or 1% of the 80% to be alive within a matter of years. Would you be really happy to let your children play in an area that is full dead ash, playfully known as widow makers?

The alternative is to fell/clear this ~80% and replant with something else; your children will get the experience watching it to regrow.

 

The problem with that in the first place:

 

It is very relevant to NE, I already linked the guidance. NE will not give you any other licences than thinning as you don't have any H&S related targets (as you alluded to it) therefore they will not allow you to do a lot as the mythical resistant ash might reside in your wood. 

 

To sum up, you are looking at a dying ash woodland (80%) with no heavy machinery access on a steep slope that is a SSSI. 

 

You need to have some deep pockets to turn this into something else. 

 

There are a lot of good points amongst the replies overshadowed by some really unbelievable answers. As I mentioned before, talk to real professionals.

 

Most agents do offer a free initial visit, speak to one of them in your area: 

Advisor Directory | woodlandadvisors

WWW.WOODLANDADVISORSGROUP.CO.UK

 

PS the attached is looking at some ash in the Cotswolds. Can you spot the problem?

What NE and FE say on paper, and what they allow are not always the same thing. 
I spent my last 5 years in the UK mostly cutting ADB affected trees, the majority of this in a SSSi in and around the South Downs. 
Most sites started out as a 30% thin, within two Winters they became clear fell and replant , largely down to safety and public access. 
Large machinery, forwarders, skidders and 360’s were used on all sites. 

[Amarus]

1 hour ago, 5thelement said:

What NE and FE say on paper, and what they allow are not always the same thing. 
I spent my last 5 years in the UK mostly cutting ADB affected trees, the majority of this in a SSSi in and around the South Downs. 
Most sites started out as a 30% thin, within two Winters they became clear fell and replant , largely down to safety and public access. 
Large machinery, forwarders, skidders and 360’s were used on all sites. 

What did 5lab say? No public access and no other targets. The FC has no say in what NE will allow on designated land and their view is quite clear if no safety issues are present.

One could potentially achieve a different result if justified correctly but that takes time, effort and a lot of money. 

Edited February 5 by Amarus

[petercb]

I know the OP has decided not to go ahead and I don't blame him. The attached is useful info for anyone in a similar position. Also FC will liaise with NE on your behalf so only the one application now needed.

 

Managing woodland SSSIs and ancient woodland with ash dieback (Hymenoscyphus fraxineus) - GOV.UK

WWW.GOV.UK

 

[5thelement]

12 hours ago, Amarus said:

largely down to safety and public access. 

And I said largely, not totally. 
Some of the areas being thinned that  that were later clear felled had no public access, some limited.
Machine operators, contractors managing the woodland restoration, restocking, FE staff conducting ecology surveys, and the odd keeper monitoring pens were recognised as important safety considerations.