Bar size for training

[AHPP]

3 hours ago, 5thelement said:

The Stihl light type is 16”, I will allow adjustments for that as it doesn’t come in 15” 

2 hours ago, 5thelement said:

I’m making the point that 15” maximum is the requirement, so turning up with anything bigger and “crack on and say nowt” isn’t going to happen. 

 

Unless it's 16".

[AHPP]

It's a bit arbitrary anyway. Where do you measure from and to? They never stick out of the powerhead what they're nominally sized. And then dogs eat into length. An 18" with big dogs is probably actually 15".

Edited August 18, 2023 by AHPP

[hedge mong]

It's set at the max size so the wheelchair bound one handed persons of foreign origin are in cluded without the your too short card having to be used for those that are not vertically limited while stood in high heels 

[5thelement]

48 minutes ago, AHPP said:

It's a bit arbitrary anyway. Where do you measure from and to? They never stick out of the powerhead what they're nominally sized. And then dogs eat into length. An 18" with big dogs is probably actually 15".

If you measure from the front of the clutch cover to the tip of the bar they are usually pretty near, you lose about an inch with standard dogs.

Most training providers use 40-50cc saws, MS261 or 550xp for example.

Both saws are light and fast, running 15” bars, more than enough power and bar length for novices cutting small trees.

Give them a bigger saw, a MS362 or 562xp on 3/8 pitch chain, and see how generally their control drops right off, give them a 500i, might as well just call the ambulance now.

 

[Joe Newton]

2 minutes ago, 5thelement said:

If you measure from the front of the clutch cover to the tip of the bar they are usually pretty near, you lose about an inch with standard dogs.

Most training providers use 40-50cc saws, MS261 or 550xp for example.

Both saws are light and fast, running 15” bars, more than enough power and bar length for novices cutting small trees.

Give them a bigger saw, a MS362 or 562xp on 3/8 pitch chain, and see how generally their control drops right off, give them a 500i, might as well just call the ambulance now.

 

Would you consider a 550xp with an 18" narrow kerf bar and chain to be less safe than a 500i with a 15" bar and 8 pin sprocket?

[5thelement]

5 minutes ago, Joe Newton said:

Would you consider a 550xp with an 18" narrow kerf bar and chain to be less safe than a 500i with a 15" bar and 8 pin sprocket?

None of these saws would be suitable for training basic felling. Set both saws up like you describe, one meets the Puwer regs, the other one doesn’t, which one do you think might be safer?

All saws are dangerous in the wrong hands.

Edited August 18, 2023 by 5thelement

[handcutter]

23 hours ago, Albion435 said:

The training providers specify a max bar size of 15 inches. 

Why is this? 

I get that the max tree size must be specified but don't understand the restriction on bar size. 

Arguably a larger bar makes it safer and is better on your posture, less bending etc. 

how does a larger bar make it safer????

 

[Joe Newton]

2 minutes ago, 5thelement said:

None of these saws would be suitable for training basic felling. Set both saws up like you describe, one meets the Puwer regs, the other one doesn’t, which one do you think might be safer?

All saws are dangerous in the wrong hands.

Why not? The criteria doesn't specify a min/max engine size afaik. Just a bar length.

[5thelement]

40 minutes ago, Joe Newton said:

Why not? The criteria doesn't specify a min/max engine size afaik. Just a bar length.

Your Husqy with its 18” bar Is too long, your 500i with its 15” bar doesn’t meet the Puwer regs, that’s why.

 

Your largely training complete novices on how to operate saws and fell trees, quite often they are crapping themselves and have very little saw control using a 50cc saw as it is, adding extra bar length to the Husqy isn’t going to help. There is nothing stopping them from using a larger cc saw, but allowing them a larger cc saw fitted with a guidebar not recommended by the manufacturer like a 500i on a 15”” , not meeting Puwer regs, is useful to them in what way?

Its a bit like taking driving lessons/driving test, you generally do it in a Yaris as opposed to a supercharged Mitsubishi Evo

Edited August 18, 2023 by 5thelement

[Joe Newton]

21 minutes ago, 5thelement said:

Your Husqy with its 18” bar Is too long, your 500i with its 15” bar doesn’t meet the Puwer regs, that’s why.

 

Your largely training complete novices on how to operate saws and fell trees, quite often they are crapping themselves and have very little saw control using a 50cc saw as it is, adding extra bar length to the Husqy isn’t going to help. There is nothing stopping them from using a larger cc saw, but allowing them a larger cc saw fitted with a guidebar not recommended by the manufacturer like a 500i on a 15”” , not meeting Puwer regs, is useful to them in what way?

Its a bit like taking driving lessons/driving test, you generally do it in a Yaris as opposed to a supercharged Mitsubishi Evo

You misunderstand me. I'm not claiming its a good idea, just stating that bar length is not the only metric you should be looking for.

 

There's no reason within PUWER to not run a short bar on a large powerhead. The manufacturer may give ideal recommendations for bar size but that's all they are.