Con area application. timeframe.

[matt padden]

Is the 6 week wait on con area work classed as working days or does it include public holidays. Just waiting on a handful to do in the new year and need to roughly schedule work. Can't find this specific info on the planning portal.

Thanks.

[GarethM]

Working days

[daltontrees]

6 weeks is 6 weeks. Ignore whether they are working days, holidays, weekends.

 

There is no specific info about this. That means 'week' means what it means in everyday usage. 7 days.

[GarethM]

That maybe the case, even your most to the rule planning guy will say give them an additional two weeks on any time frame to cover your bum.

 

They love to pull the ask a question 4.55pm on Friday on the 6th week bs, which resets the clock.

[daltontrees]

8 hours ago, GarethM said:

That maybe the case, even your most to the rule planning guy will say give them an additional two weeks on any time frame to cover your bum.

 

They love to pull the ask a question 4.55pm on Friday on the 6th week bs, which resets the clock.

Unless the Council is saying that the notification is invalid, then asking a question does not reset the clock. That's why it's so important to put in a notification that is clear as to what works are intended.

[Dan Maynard]

In the council's around me, once notification is on the planning public access system then the significant dates are set and displayed. This tends to be 6 weeks from date validated but I wouldn't argue the day or two that takes.

[Jon Heuch]

On 16/12/2022 at 07:31, matt padden said:

Is the 6 week wait on con area work classed as working days or does it include public holidays. Just waiting on a handful to do in the new year and need to roughly schedule work. Can't find this specific info on the planning portal.

Thanks.

 

Matt

The law is written a little unusually with regards to this aspect (see below) but since it is in the primary legislation you don't need to look at regulations, planning rules or anything any particular council might want you to do. The clock starts ticking once you have served notice on the council. If you serve the notice on a Friday afternoon or over the weekend (or other holiday) you might reasonably expect the council to open your notice on the first working day after you served it (so if you served it on a Wednesday, then Thursday). It's when YOU served the notice, not when the council opened it, first read it, validated it, entered it into their computer system etc. The notice has to give "sufficient particulars to identify the tree" - note it does not say you have to be crystal clear with the work you intend to do or that you have to comply with any British Standard merely that you can defend yourself if you merely do "the act" that you informed the council of.

 

So 6 weeks is 6 calendar weeks as you would normally use the term. If 10 days of that is the Christmas break, that makes no difference.

 

You don't need to have anything in writing from the council to acknowledge receipt (or to give you "permission") but you would be wise to use the Planning Portal so that you have an electronic acknowledgement which comes in two parts - one to say that it has been received by the PP and the other to say it has been passed to the LA. As above, if the council say they have not received your notification from the PP that's their problem. You would be in a more difficult situation if you had merely put it in the post (especially at the moment!).

 

And remember, the council can only stop the works going ahead if they serve a TPO and they must serve the TPO on both the tree owner and yourselves as notifier so there should be no doubt if there is a TPO or not when you start your chainsaws. 

 

see s 211 of the Town and Country Planning Act 1990:

 

(3) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) to prove—

(a) that he served notice of his intention to do the act in question (with sufficient particulars to identify the tree) on the local planning authority in whose area the tree is or was situated; and

(b) that he did the act in question—

(i) with the consent of the local planning authority in whose area the tree is or was situated, or

(ii) after the expiry of the period of six weeks from the date of the notice but before the expiry of the period of two years from that date.

[matt padden]

Thanks!

[daltontrees]

14 hours ago, Jon Heuch said:

 

 The notice has to give "sufficient particulars to identify the tree" - note it does not say you have to be crystal clear with the work you intend to do or that you have to comply with any British Standard merely that you can defend yourself if you merely do "the act" that you informed the council of.

This is a somewhat problematic matter in practice. The Council should only be concerned with the effect on the amentiy of the area of the proposed works. Unlike inTPO areas the tree in a CA is not necessarily already important. But if it is, the Council will want to (i) be able to envisage the immediate loss of amenity due to the proposed works and (b) know whether the works will permanently result in loss of amenity due to bad or excessive tree works and (c) be able to check that the works have been done in accordance with the Notice (and no more). An imprecise, vague or ambiguous Notice will prevent all or any of these.

 

The Government guidance is that "The authority is advised to refer a section 211 notice containing insufficient or unclear information back to the person who submitted it. The authority may wish to provide information to help them resubmit an appropriate notice."

 

The implication is this. If the LPA advises that the Notice is not adequately clear, then the immunity from prosecution provided by the Act does not exist and that carrying out the works would be prima facie a statutory offence. Prosecution may follow.

[Jon Heuch]

On 19/12/2022 at 10:05, daltontrees said:

The implication is this. If the LPA advises that the Notice is not adequately clear, then the immunity from prosecution provided by the Act does not exist and that carrying out the works would be prima facie a statutory offence. Prosecution may follow.

 

Undoubtedly, if you were to ignore a council's response like this you would be getting into an uncertain area where the council has stated its case & could prosecute.  Regardless of the notice any works to a conservation area tree is an offence. The T&CP Act 1990 doesn't state that notified tree works are an exemption. It states that you would have a defence if the council attempted to prosecute you so it's unlikely that the council would prosecute you if you had such a defence. You would have that defence if you told them which tree you intend to work on unambiguously AND what work you intended to do. If the council stated that the work as stated was not stated to BS3998 or might harm the tree (e.g. you intended to cut off a large branch) your defence does not automatically disappear. You need to state the "act" you intend to do and restrict yourself to that. If it's unclear which branch you intend to remove or what size stub you intend to leave then you are just asking for trouble. Clearly, it is easier to go along with council requests but that does not mean that all are necessary/lawful.