Buying Timber

[benedmonds]

Ganoderma has turned the roots and much if the tree to mush, but that 2m section looks ok. What size should I mill it to?

[18 stoner]

Ben, did you log the limbs? In the pic it looks like it. I have a few tons of walnut but nearly all limbs, still got plenty of black in them, but the tree sounds similar to yours-whole root ball shot and most of the stem.

[benedmonds]

Most of the limbs were also rotten. Logged more than we should have. I've yet to sell wood for anythink other than fire wood and it's a lot of effort milling it just to make me feel good.

[Buzz]

There is skill in felling valuable hard wood butts without damaging them, as others have said you need a decent load to make it worthwhile to a timber merchant. A single butt only has value to a local firewood merchant at a guess.

[18 stoner]

Most of the limbs were also rotten. Logged more than we should have. I've yet to sell wood for anythink other than fire wood and it's a lot of effort milling it just to make me feel good.

 

I know what you mean ben, would be nice to think it went to a good home and just got beer money for your efforts instead of logging it:bawling:

[18 stoner]

There is skill in felling valuable hard wood butts without damaging them, as others have said you need a decent load to make it worthwhile to a timber merchant. A single butt only has value to a local firewood merchant at a guess.

 

Matt, it sounds like my tree was the same as bens, it was windblown and left for 2years before i got to it. The rootball and stem were rotten but i have salvaged about 3-4tons of limbs, all around 6feet long and 24inch diameter.

 

There is a guy in the next village who would probably give me £100-200 for it, guess thats not so bad then?

[Quickthorn]

Whereabouts is it? What's access like?

 

Beech does have its uses..I believe it's the preferred wood for joiner's/cabinet maker's benches. Also, here's a fellow down the road who makes small edge tools, and he uses beech for the handles, because it doesn't pick up the dirt so much.

[wills-mill]

I think most small mill owners and mobile sawyers (like me :wave:) DON'T want big truck loads at a time. The cost of the timber and transport and the time and effort of milling and stacking gets tied up for a couple of years as the timber dries.

 

A big stack of timber makes a big hole in the pocket- personally I like individual trees or a little parcel of the same species, unless I know I've got a definite order for a large amount of the same timber. If I can mill on site rather than hauling round timber I'm happy and if I can split the sawn timber or do some work instead of coughing up cash I'm happiest.

If a Tree Surgeon rings me I usually ask "what do YOU want out of the tree?" and usually find that planking out a nice bit for shelving, a coffee table, deck, bridge, pergola, benches or whatever goes down well. Quite a bit of the time the householder or site owner gets keen as well--- that's just fine by me.

 

Most of the time, distance from base is the biggest factor when it comes to buying or bartering timber for my own stock. If I just go to mill for someone, and they are paying for the milling and keeping all the timber then life is much simpler and the logistics are much easier.

 

Beech is a difficult one though, I find that it's a very utilitarian commercial timber and doesn't light the old fires of lust for most people. Walnut, Yew, character boards of nice gnarly Oak, brown Ash and other less mainstream timber tend to give people the wood-horn a bit often. Maybe it's just my personal feeling, but I've got some nice beech boards and loads of spalty timber that was accidental (I didn't get round to milling the butts quickly enough), and they aren't disappearing that quickly.

I suppose if people want to do serious 'straight line' joinery (like a beech joiners bench or sturdy, sensible built in cabinetry), they will want clean, straight grained and almost undoubtedly kiln dried timber. That's my definition of a commercial timber, what you'd expect from most places selling European Oak, or steamed kilned beech from Germany, or any of the mass utility softwood products- quick and easy to mill and process, and unlikely to have defects and surprises. As a smaller mill, it's difficult to justify pricing and cutting a product that puts you in direct competition with the mega-mills- making a product that is usually whacked out with great precision efficiency and speed. So when people tell me I should be knocking out loads of sleepers or fencing timber, I tend to keep away.

 

I feel that it's like a small scale pig farm trying to compete with a Wall's or cheap supermarket sausage. You've got to ask some questions:

Am I going to do it any better or make any more profit than the big names? No, probably not

Will anybody make the effort to buy something commercial and day-to-day from me when they can buy it with their weekly shop easily and for a knockdown price? No, probably not

Do I really want to make this bland and commercial product which is knocked out by the million by someone else, out of a convenient but boring material, with possible environmental and ethical concerns? No, probably not

 

When you look at commercial building, fencing and joinery timber from DIY places, builders yards and timber merchants it's something that's needed in huge quantities every day of the year (frightening amounts), but I don't think a tree surgeon who uses a chainsaw mill or who gets a mobile sawyer in for a day a couple of times a year should be knocking himself (OK, themselves) out trying to compete with. OK it's realistic to knock out some really nice building timber or weatherboard and be competitive and profitable, but MAINLY we smaller types should concentrate on what is different and unique to our timber. The timber's source, method of conversion, local benefits, real character and soul, lack of transport and energy issues are something that can never be bettered by PR and packaging. It should be a source of pride.

Strangely, I'm really delighted to tell people sometimes that their timber is NOT from a sustainable source. I collect or salvage quite a bit of timber from building and clearance sites- old gardens or large houses getting blitzed and developed. I'll get a call from one of a few climbers or company owners that have seen the light and don't like waste- and I then like to let people know that their wood was saved from landfill or saved from being logged up, though sadly the site where it was grown may never have the spaces again to grow a decent tree......

 

I feel I've had my rambling head on and ranged far and wide from the subject of the thread. Apologies.

I'm going to say a dozen "Hail Steve's" and work out a Dummies Guide to timber measurement and pricing. Knowledge is Power, and I think most people feel left out of the timber chain......

[Mr Ed]

Good post. Maybe we should have a timber thread in the forestry forum?

[treedave]

work out a Dummies Guide to timber measurement and pricing. Knowledge is Power, and I think most people feel left out of the timber chain......

 

Will,

I'm still struggling with measurement / pricing after a couple of years on and off, talk about a black art!.

If you work out an idiots guide I'll be glad to wear a hat with a big fat "D" as long as I understand what's going on!

Left out of the chain - more like deliberate exclusion!

 

Rant over, and breathe!