Chainsaw milling novice- cut not running straight, chain sharpening issue?

[trigger_andy]

2 minutes ago, Layne said:

@ tigger andy I've been trying the method used on the granberg instructional video for the precision grinder to measure the tooth length - a bolt with a couple of nuts attached which are adjusted to set the measure. Is it worth me getting a vernier caliper? I'm just getting a sense of how accurate this all has to be, is it a case of the more accurate the better?

Ive not seen any of the video's, Ive always just followed the instructions that I posted above. Ive never tried the bolt and nut idea and it seems pointless to me. Yeh, get a £10 Vernier, handy for all sorts of things apart from measuring tooth lengths.  I have a good set but then Im given them from work. 

 

If one set of teeth are longer than the other then only that side is fully engaging with the log and the chain will be biting on that side pulling the chain and therefore the Mill in that direction. Another good habit to get into is checking your bar condition and keeping it in rotation. You need to 'dress' your bar regularly as well. A badly worn bar thats not had any maintenance can cause you to wander as well. If the grove is too wide your chains gonna flop around in there and wander in the direction it choses. You do have a Guide Bar Dressing Tool, right?  

 

Milling is hard on your equipment, if you dont have the correct 'service' equipment and service intervals you're gonna keep running into the problems you're having.

 

And yes, Id say your Saw is too small for the work you're expecting of it. When you kill it you can invest in something more suitable for Milling.  

[Layne]

@trigger_andy   ok thanks. Yes I've got a depth gauge. One thing I've actually never done though is sharpen a chain by hand just with a file, freehand style. I had a hand jig that worked a bit like the granberg grinder and screwed onto the bar in the past, and now for my crosscut chains we've got an electric grinder with a round stone that you hinge down onto the tooth, can't remember the make of it, I'll look tomorrow. Sounds like it's time for me to learn to use a hand file, I've just bought a couple with the guide ruler bit attached.

 

Oh and with regard to sharpening angles for the granberg ripping chain - they say 5 degrees for the cutters and 20 degress for the others, which is what I've been doing, but I've heard people say they just do them all to 10 degrees. Which is best?

[trigger_andy]

1 minute ago, Layne said:

Oh and with regard to sharpening angles for the granberg ripping chain - they say 5 degrees for the cutters and 20 degress for the others, which is what I've been doing, but I've heard people say they just do them all to 10 degrees. Which is best?

There is some far more knowledgeable guys here than me and Im sure they can more fully appreciate what you're referring to here. Some like to custom grind their teeth to suit the wood they are milling, some like to set the teeth at zero degree's and some find that 10 degrees for all the teeth work just fine. Personally I just leave them at 10 degrees and Im happy with that.

 

When you say 5 degrees for some and 20 for the others I assume you're not taking about in the same chain, right? If so Im a bit lost as to what you're referring to. 

 

Yes, you really need to learn how to hand sharpen, its relatively easy and quick once you get some muscle memory built into your hands. Im not sure what the other tool you're referring to but a fairly good bench chain grinder is also a good investment. Get yourself 2-3 chains, sharpen them all before the start of the day and you can then quickly rotate them after you've given them a few hand sharpens during the day. Then at the end of play square them all up on the bench grinder ready for next time.

 

The Grandberg really comes into its own when you're out in the sticks and hit metal, especially on a 36" or longer chain and need to re-dress it. Just add a set of Verniers to your wee kit bag. 

[Layne]

@trigger_andy ok thanks I'll get a vernier caliper then, and a bar dressing tool which I don't have. I'd not known about dressing bars until I started learning about milling. I had at least been rotating my bars in the past. That all sounds like great advice; I can see that knowing how to do the proper maintenance and get the chains sharpened really well is even more important for milling.

 

I've also got a MS 661c to use with the 48" Panther Horizon mill. I feel like I could do with an inbetween setup for milling upto 24" logs; seems if I put a 30" or 36' bar on the 661 I'd have a really powerful saw for this size of log?

[openspaceman]

23 minutes ago, Layne said:

How do you tell - just by eye or by taking a photo/anything else?

Just by eye. The thing I try to point out to people is that a sharp edge or point  does not reflect light, it has no width so cannot reflect. If you study your picture the near tooth that is in focus has a reflection all round the cutting edge and a more pronounced score on the nearside top plate.

 

The top plates should be self cleaning most of the time but if the cutters on one side are blunt they will cause far more friction as the chain is pushed over in the bar and heats up.

 

When felling ( I don't do chainsaw milling) the two woods that tend to cause a bit of a build up are douglas and ash.

[trigger_andy]

Just now, Layne said:

I can see that knowing how to do the proper maintenance and get the chains sharpened really well is even more important for milling.

Totally, its highly important when Milling. Once you start to run off when Milling you've buggered not just one but two boards.

 

1 minute ago, Layne said:

I've also got a MS 661c to use with the 48" Panther Horizon mill. I feel like I could do with an inbetween setup for milling upto 24" logs; seems if I put a 30" or 36' bar on the 661 I'd have a really powerful saw for this size of log?

Id use the 661 and not the 241 personally. Ive never milled 12" logs with an Alaskan though, so maybe something small will be ok for that? Little logs like that go on my Bandsaw. 

[Layne]

Here's what I meant about the diiferent angles from the chainsawbars website:

Granberg ripping chain has been modified further – this configuration features x2 scoring cutters followed by x2 clearing cutters. The easiest way to sharpen this is by making all the cutters 10 degrees however if you wish you can sharpen the scoring cutters to 20 degrees and the clearing cutters to 5 degrees.

[trigger_andy]

Just now, Layne said:

Here's what I meant about the diiferent angles from the chainsawbars website:

Granberg ripping chain has been modified further – this configuration features x2 scoring cutters followed by x2 clearing cutters. The easiest way to sharpen this is by making all the cutters 10 degrees however if you wish you can sharpen the scoring cutters to 20 degrees and the clearing cutters to 5 degrees.

Oh cool, that certainly makes more sense.  I like easy, so Id stick with the advice and go for that.  

[Layne]

@openspaceman thanks yes I can see that. What does the more pronounced score on the nearside top plate tell you?

[Layne]

@trigger_andy ok cool that sounds like a great way to go about milling with the 2-3 chains and hand filing during the day, I'll do that. It's so valuable to learn how you guys with experience do things, thankyou!

 

And yeah it seems a shame to have the 661 now (a recent addition) and be milling with the 241.