Advice about Acer saccharinum laciniatum

[StephanieFreeman]

Hi I wonder if anyone can assist. I have a new housing development being built next to me and in the planning application which i can comment on they have said they are planting an Acer saccharinum laciniatum 425-600cm 14-16cm Extra Heavy Standard. This is being planted within 1m of my concrete retaining wall, approx 4 meters from my house and 3 metres from my drainage system.

 

Am I correct in thinking this tree grows fast to over 20m in width and height and can be a problem if planted close to sewers, houses, concrete structures etc

Any advice would be helpful in terms of how far from houses, retaining walls  etc these trees should be planted

Edited June 18, 2021 by StephanieFreeman
need more info

[Steve Bullman]

Hi Stephanie,

 

Yep they can grow to be quite big trees. It does seem to be an odd choice of species given the area you describe.

[Oddjobz]

Any Acer in the overstory category.  ie: Sugar, Norway, Silver  should never be planted withing 3 meters of any structure,

retaining wall, supply pipes etc.

 

The root mass of these trees are quite enormous. Buttress roots will grow laterally down angled in most instances.

Consider the canopy can easily reach more than 33 meters wide and root length can exceed 100meters.

 

The catch here is that the new hybrids do not carry all traits of the source. BUT, this is a BIG "but". There can be a reversion

to natural traits in some specimens..... Ex:  15yrs ago a Columnar Sugar Maple was marketed as an understory (less than 10-12 meters height.) I went to see one the other day...... currently just under 18 meters and insanely dense canopy, less than 2% visible sky.

 

I'm extremely leery of anything derived from the Acer Saccharinum (silver maple) strain. These trees easily

hybridize naturally. I've seen at least 8 variations of trees over 80yrs old...... all are massive, fast growing, invasive roots,

carpenter ant favorite, fragile grained,  susceptible to verticillium wilt and prone to co-dominance  trees out there.  Fine in a forest but not near a home.

I believe they are genetically poorer than the more dense fiber maples and more susceptible to problems.

 

So be vary wary.........personally, I'd replace it while I could.

[Steve Bullman]

4 minutes ago, Oddjobz said:

I believe they are genetically poorer than the more dense fiber maples and more susceptible to problems.

I'd agree with that purely from my experience climbing them. They certainly feel more fragile to climb around in, and often have old wounds where they have shed large limbs.

[Khriss]

You have a concrete retaining wall... A pic could help. K

[StephanieFreeman]

This is the retaining wall and they want to put the tree next to this and the side of my house is approx 3m from the fence. 

[raafbeard]

Just say no!!

[Oddjobz]

Well,

I found variant "Laciniatum Wieri" here are the key points that immediately steers me clear of this for residential purposes.

 

 

Height:

20 m, fast growing

Crown:

round to broad fan-shaped, half-open crown, capricious growing

Application:

avenues and broad streets, parks, squares, cemeteries, industrial areas, large gardens

Shape:

clearstem tree, multi-stem tree

 

 

 

Anyways, it could be worse, they could have offered an eastern poplar or a weeping willow..... 🙂

 

PS: The 3 most dangerous trees for septics and underground watering/supply systems due

to the extremely aggressive nature of the root systems. 

1) Eastern Poplar

2) Weeping willow

3) Silver maple 

All can grow extensive root systems up to 100meters....far wider than the drip line.

(the order above is debatable, but all three are nasty)

 

Edited June 18, 2021 by Oddjobz

[Oddjobz]

Oddly enough I ran into one today. The idea of these trees were that they were to be understory

and narrow enough that they would grow beside overhead wires without needing extensive maintenance.

 

As you can see on the left side of the tree, it is losing its cultivar's form and is reverting to natural.

The large laterals are prime candidates for breakage, as this one is experiencing. One dead limb

already exists in the naturalized area of growth.......on the back rear two leaders have also broken from

the design and are poking diagonally out from the canopy.  So much for cultivars efforts with maples.

They don't seem to want to behave........Often in these trees we'll see schoolmarms. 

(Lateral scaffolds that decide to go vertical and try to assume the "terminal role" or "dominant leader" if you prefer)

 

 

 

 

BTW,  most of these are hybrids of Sugar and Norway maples. Many cultivars exist, few have had over 50% success as far as I've seen......along a highway, not a problem, next to a house or power line......problem.😒

 

Edited June 19, 2021 by Oddjobz

[averagearborist]

This does not seem like an appropriate species in an appropriate place. It would not be viable long term because of the size and spread and how this would encroach on the surrounding building and features. Perhaps an oversite by the planners.

[Oddjobz]

2 hours ago, averagearborist said:

This does not seem like an appropriate species in an appropriate place. It would not be viable long term because of the size and spread and how this would encroach on the surrounding building and features. Perhaps an oversite by the planners.

This is a common occurrence in our region. We have an overabundance of overhead KV lines throughout the province.

Hydro Quebec policy is "above ground" ..... in opposition to the standards everywhere else in North America and most parts of Europe. 

 

It make Horticultural planning a real pain for homeowners, landscapers and municipalities.

Especially when cultivars come along with a tree typically an overstory, claim its now and understory with

confined canopy spread ......... and it fails to meet the design criteria. Cultivars aren't perfect.....Nature defies rules.

 

Imagine that behind that maple are two Ash trees......both have been treated for Emerald Ash borer at some expense.

We should question "why" treat when they should be removed and replaced immediately since they don't belong

under 3 phase KV lines to begin with. Duh.

 

So back to the the original question.......As one poster said " Just say no" .

Consider:  Soil (wet, dry, alkali or acidic)

Do you want:  Tall slender, Tall wide, Short wide, Short compact. 

Type: Deciduous or conifer  (do you want to go barefoot around the tree, soft needle confer)

Do you like to rake leaves?  Large leaf (rake or mulch) or small leaf (dissolves into the soil)

 

All trees have their plus and minuses.....

Good idea to ask an arborist .....we deal with these things daily..