Stihl MS211/C problem with power in the cut

[Sawchip]

3 hours ago, Sawchip said:

ms 171 181 211 copy.pdfYou "may" not have a proper manual ....I think some reading is in order for a better understanding of the issues you are having. 

 

Here is some water.....now I hope this horse takes the time to drink !!!!

[spudulike]

Ha, manuals are for girlies...we are men, and men don't need manuals

[Sawchip]

6 minutes ago, spudulike said:

Ha, manuals are for girlies...we are men, and men don't need manuals

You can get a "girlie" manual !! ?.....excellent !

[John Rainford]

Thanks for the replies fellas, especially the H screw setting. You've saved my saw!!! . I followed the manual on the setting and it made no mention of one and a half turns with the limiter off. Okay, so I just went through all of the things mentioned above and these are the encouraging results.

 

1. Made sure the H screw is one and a half turns out.

2. Took the bar and chain off and started up. Let it idle for a minute and then squeezed on the throttle. The bar oil hole and groove are free of debris and the oil oozed out of the oil hole after a minute.

3. Put the bar and chain back on and did the bar oiling test on a brown paper bag, holding the saw tip a couple of inches away from the bag. After a minute, started to get a splatter effect of oil coming off the bar and on to the paper bag. I checked the chain immediately after this and the links had a film of oil on them.

4. Tensioned the chain using spuds technique, which produced a chain tension much looser than I had been previously using. Used a screwdriver to push the chain forward on the bar to see how quickly it would come to a stop: It still stopped almost immediately, but perhaps ran on for a second, and perhaps an inch, that's a second and an inch more than it was doing

5. Started the saw, let it idle for a minute and then reved it. I have a different engine sound than I previously had. It sounds much stronger and a little smoother.

6. Did a practice cut. There was more power in the cut, the chain did not stop in the cut as it had been doing. I was able to cut deeper in to the test log than previously, but it still took longer than I would have thought to get through a 7 inch log. ( Could this be a blunt chain which I am hoping will be cured by using the correct size file, when it arrives 4mm,  as opposed to the 4.5 mm file I had been using. I think my filing technique is okay. I get that nice grating sound as the file sharpens the teeth. There are lots of tiny specs of chain dust which gather on the vice during cutting. Incidentley,  the blue that bmp01 observed on the top of the tooth in the video was just a marker pen I was using when sharpening.  

 

When I had finished the single practice cut, and put the saw back on the bench with the shroud off, it was smoking quite a lot for a minute or two, it was obviously very hot.

Should I check the L screw, or leave it where it is?

 

Anyway, lots of progress, and maybe a sharp chain will complete the cure. I will post a video during the week when my son is round. Once again, thanks for your patience and expertise. I am learning a lot, but now realise I know about 1% of what a trained mechanic knows.

[Stubby]

54 minutes ago, John Rainford said:

Thanks for the replies fellas, especially the H screw setting. You've saved my saw!!! . I followed the manual on the setting and it made no mention of one and a half turns with the limiter off. Okay, so I just went through all of the things mentioned above and these are the encouraging results.

 

1. Made sure the H screw is one and a half turns out.

2. Took the bar and chain off and started up. Let it idle for a minute and then squeezed on the throttle. The bar oil hole and groove are free of debris and the oil oozed out of the oil hole after a minute.

3. Put the bar and chain back on and did the bar oiling test on a brown paper bag, holding the saw tip a couple of inches away from the bag. After a minute, started to get a splatter effect of oil coming off the bar and on to the paper bag. I checked the chain immediately after this and the links had a film of oil on them.

4. Tensioned the chain using spuds technique, which produced a chain tension much looser than I had been previously using. Used a screwdriver to push the chain forward on the bar to see how quickly it would come to a stop: It still stopped almost immediately, but perhaps ran on for a second, and perhaps an inch, that's a second and an inch more than it was doing

5. Started the saw, let it idle for a minute and then reved it. I have a different engine sound than I previously had. It sounds much stronger and a little smoother.

6. Did a practice cut. There was more power in the cut, the chain did not stop in the cut as it had been doing. I was able to cut deeper in to the test log than previously, but it still took longer than I would have thought to get through a 7 inch log. ( Could this be a blunt chain which I am hoping will be cured by using the correct size file, when it arrives 4mm,  as opposed to the 4.5 mm file I had been using. I think my filing technique is okay. I get that nice grating sound as the file sharpens the teeth. There are lots of tiny specs of chain dust which gather on the vice during cutting. Incidentley,  the blue that bmp01 observed on the top of the tooth in the video was just a marker pen I was using when sharpening.  

 

When I had finished the single practice cut, and put the saw back on the bench with the shroud off, it was smoking quite a lot for a minute or two, it was obviously very hot.

Should I check the L screw, or leave it where it is?

 

Anyway, lots of progress, and maybe a sharp chain will complete the cure. I will post a video during the week when my son is round. Once again, thanks for your patience and expertise. I am learning a lot, but now realise I know about 1% of what a trained mechanic knows.

Glad you have an improvement . You still did not say if you are using a file guide plate to sharpen or if you are doing it free hand . To be honest if you had a 4.00mm or 4.5mm it would not have made much difference provided you keep the file at the right height ( one 5th of its diameter above the top plate of the cutter ) Also take the rakers down  ( depth gauges ) every 3rd or 4th sharpen .

[bmp01]

2 hours ago, John Rainford said:

 

When I had finished the single practice cut, and put the saw back on the bench with the shroud off, it was smoking quite a lot for a minute or two, it was obviously very hot.

Should I check the L screw, or leave it where it is?

 

Err yeah, its hot because there are twice as many bangs going on inside the cylinder when its 2 stroking rather than 4 stroking. And as you're reving the engine a good deal faster than before thats probably another 50 %. So maybe 3 times the heat input. Smoke will be the acumulation of oils (from rebuild and chain oil) burning off, probably less smoke next time.

 

Proper chain sharpening = faster cutting.

As Stubby says, get a sharpening guide, you will thank him once you've tried a sharp chain. It can't be emphasised enough the benefit of a sharp chain with correct cutting angles. The saw will stop bouncing about, you won't need to push on the bar to get it to cut, there will be less wear and tear on you and the saw. 

The key to it is the 'Top plate angle'. To get that angle right you need to have the round file at exactly the right height relative to the top of the tooth, (which the guide does for you). 4.0 or 4.5 files will make a small or no difference if the heights wrong.  Have a look at 'chainsawbars' sharpening here:

https://www.chainsawbars.co.uk/chain-sharpening/

 

Edited February 1, 2020 by bmp01

[Stubby]

40 minutes ago, bmp01 said:

 

Err yeah, its hot because there are twice as many bangs going on inside the cylinder when its 2 stroking rather than 4 stroking. And as you're reving the engine a good deal faster than before thats probably another 50 %. So maybe 3 times the heat input. Smoke will be the acumulation of oils (from rebuild and chain oil) burning off, probably less smoke next time.

 

Proper chain sharpening = faster cutting.

As Stubby says, get a sharpening guide, you will thank him once you've tried a sharp chain. It can't be emphasised enough the benefit of a sharp chain with correct cutting angles. The saw will stop bouncing about, you won't need to push on the bar to get it to cut, there will be less wear and tear on you and the saw. 

The key to it is the 'Top plate angle'. To get that angle right you need to have the round file at exactly the right height relative to the top of the tooth, (which the guide does for you). 4.0 or 4.5 files will make a small or no difference if the heights wrong.  Have a look at 'chainsawbars' sharpening here:

https://www.chainsawbars.co.uk/chain-sharpening/

 

Thought I must be typing with invisible ink !  Thanks bmp01 ?

[John Rainford]

I am using a file guide Stubby. It came in an oregon kit. It's a very basic one. Maybe I need to invest in a better guide and look at my filing technique again. I will look at the video link posted by bmp01 and see how I get on. Thanks for your input.

 

I do have one question. Baring in mind that I have not touched the H screw since it came back from a service a few months ago, how did it end up turned out far to much. Could it have anything to do with the fact that the limiter cap is missing. When it came back from the service it functioned well for a while.  I service my road bike which has H and L screws on the rear derailleur, they don't move on there own at all. 

[John Rainford]

Just watched the chain sharpening video. It's very informative and looks like I have been filing to high, which could be in part due to using a 4.5 mm file instead of a 4 mm file.

[spudulike]

Sounds like we are getting there. Just need to learn about how to file which is pretty easy tbh, remember to take care with the depth gauges once the cutters start getting filed down significantly.

All good and hope the thing is beginning to perform now. You could try a new chain and you will then see how a chain should cut although many will say they can file a chain to work better than that