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tree77

Confirmed TPO

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20 hours ago, EdwardC said:

Chris, you must JR an Order within 6 weeks of the date of confirmation

Excuse my ignorance, but what does JR mean?

TIA

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4 hours ago, Gary Prentice said:

That LA has sure had some bad luck! :D

I forgot to mention the plague of locust.

  • Haha 1

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On 15/05/2019 at 12:33, EdwardC said:

If you want proof it was confirmed ask for a copy of the land charge records, it should be on there.

 

Chris, you must JR an Order within 6 weeks of the date of confirmation, even if confirmed late. After that you can't challenge it in any legal proceedings whatsoever.

i) good point about land charges but.....they charge and typically their starting charge isn't cheap. I haven't tried an informal approach though.

ii) Quite correct about not being able to initiate such a challenge after the time limit, but at the same time if the council were to attempt a prosecution they would  have to show beyond reasonable doubt that an offence had been committed.....and without a confirmed order (except for the newest ones) they can't do so. The onus is on the council.

 

I now have data from several councils on what proportion of TPOs served have been confirmed......it's quite damning - a TPO without confirmation cannot be assumed to be confirmed.

 

As for the photocopying lark, we almost all have to deal with photocopies - typically the one made when the order was initially served. One council (Thanet to be blunt) that admits their legal department don't have any of the original TPO documents prior to a certain date. The photocopy they do have of their large TPO covering much of Broadstairs (dated 1956) does not include all of the areas listed as protected - whoops! I know they have no evidence of confirmation of any of their older TPOs...…..problem! Well they did have an unprotected spreadsheet listing dates of confirmation (many of which were a Sunday)…..but they have lost the spreadsheet (I have it!). Other councils may have similar problems but I haven't come across one quite so bad.

 

Rumour has it that they may be recruiting a tree officer - sounds like a challenging job!

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8 hours ago, Jon Heuch said:

i) good point about land charges but.....they charge and typically their starting charge isn't cheap. I haven't tried an informal approach though.

ii) Quite correct about not being able to initiate such a challenge after the time limit, but at the same time if the council were to attempt a prosecution they would  have to show beyond reasonable doubt that an offence had been committed.....and without a confirmed order (except for the newest ones) they can't do so. The onus is on the council.

 

I now have data from several councils on what proportion of TPOs served have been confirmed......it's quite damning - a TPO without confirmation cannot be assumed to be confirmed.

 

As for the photocopying lark, we almost all have to deal with photocopies - typically the one made when the order was initially served. One council (Thanet to be blunt) that admits their legal department don't have any of the original TPO documents prior to a certain date. The photocopy they do have of their large TPO covering much of Broadstairs (dated 1956) does not include all of the areas listed as protected - whoops! I know they have no evidence of confirmation of any of their older TPOs...…..problem! Well they did have an unprotected spreadsheet listing dates of confirmation (many of which were a Sunday)…..but they have lost the spreadsheet (I have it!). Other councils may have similar problems but I haven't come across one quite so bad.

 

Rumour has it that they may be recruiting a tree officer - sounds like a challenging job!

 

 

 

Does the land charge show on the tile dead's for the property?, 

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7 hours ago, tree77 said:

Does the land charge show on the tile dead's for the property?, 

No

 

15 hours ago, Jon Heuch said:

good point about land charges but.....they charge and typically their starting charge isn't cheap. I haven't tried an informal approach though.

Could you not serve them with an FOI request, which in light of the Markinson decision shouldn't cost anything. I  emphasise shouldn't, because you will almost inevitably be charged.

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19 hours ago, Jon Heuch said:

i) good point about land charges but.....they charge and typically their starting charge isn't cheap. I haven't tried an informal approach though.

ii) Quite correct about not being able to initiate such a challenge after the time limit, but at the same time if the council were to attempt a prosecution they would  have to show beyond reasonable doubt that an offence had been committed.....and without a confirmed order (except for the newest ones) they can't do so. The onus is on the council.

 

I now have data from several councils on what proportion of TPOs served have been confirmed......it's quite damning - a TPO without confirmation cannot be assumed to be confirmed.

 

As for the photocopying lark, we almost all have to deal with photocopies - typically the one made when the order was initially served. One council (Thanet to be blunt) that admits their legal department don't have any of the original TPO documents prior to a certain date. The photocopy they do have of their large TPO covering much of Broadstairs (dated 1956) does not include all of the areas listed as protected - whoops! I know they have no evidence of confirmation of any of their older TPOs...…..problem! Well they did have an unprotected spreadsheet listing dates of confirmation (many of which were a Sunday)…..but they have lost the spreadsheet (I have it!). Other councils may have similar problems but I haven't come across one quite so bad.

 

Rumour has it that they may be recruiting a tree officer - sounds like a challenging job!

My local Council (South lanarkshire Council) has admitted it has no copies of its TPOs before 1996. They're all delineated in the Local Plan but no paperwork. An area of 1,800km2.

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3 hours ago, EdwardC said:

Could you not serve them with an FOI request, which in light of the Markinson decision shouldn't cost anything. I  emphasise shouldn't, because you will almost inevitably be charged.

There's a FoI exemption for "Information which is reasonably accessible to the applicant otherwise than" under an FoI request. So if land charges can be obtained by a conventional public process (free or otherwise), an FoI could be refused.

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