Might be doing cs32 soon

[spuddog0507]

51 minutes ago, drinksloe said:

I was going to same the exact same as others on here, seen me cutting smaller stuff for skylines and u could almost be finished the 2nd tree and even on the the 3rd if it was clinging on the way smaller SS/NS can do when not got the wieght u top.

 

Treating every tree the same is just a nonsense anyway, with a normal fell there is absolutely no need to be more than a few steps away, but its when u know ur working with a dodgyier tree u should make the effort to be further away.

To be honest 1/2 the problem is modern training, in the past u weren't allowed to do ur 32 untill u had ur 31 for 2 years to get experience, which is a good thing. letting some numpty whos never lifted a saw before go straight from nothing to 32 in a few weeks is just asking for trouble n the real world.

 

10m might not be far on a flat car park but in a forestry environment it can seem a long way if ur up/down across a step banking (and good chance it could be otherwise the harvester would of got them)

I'd actually say walking 10m away for every tree could actually be more dangerous as by end of day u'll be too knackered to run if needed, and i know its often the last tree of the day i f**k up which is when u ant some spring in ur legs.

 

I'd also be very interested in where these stats came from?? If not uk based are they even relevant?

Do yhey have the same HSE or ppe or cutting a similar type of timber

Ljke avant said i thought Fisa had cured everything!!

 

The jobs hard enough  without adding 20m to every tree

 

I bet there not 15 000 forestry workers in the uk never mnd get injured every year

yes agree with what your saying on this one from never having a saw in your hand, you can book a ten day course for about 2 grand and walk away with CS 30,31,32,34, & 35 ok 30/31 yes but to progress to 32 is a little insane and for a total novice to be let loose on a fresh windblown site with only the expierance of doing a 2 day course plus accesment is total maddness and a seirious accident waiting to happen and for the more expierianced lads on here we all know if you put a newbie in to windblown he wont get much done in a day as he would be scratching his head and trying to calm his self down most of the time after a but end just missing his head by not reading the situation correctly so WHY is it not still 2 yrs any one know why and when this was changed ,

[drinksloe]

Guessing the why will be money for the training providers, get them in and they pay for a load of stuff they might not ever need/use. I wonder in the past how many folk ever done 32 or windblow? U look on the job sections here and very few folk do seem to have 32, with loads having 31 and climbing tickets 38,39.

I managed for years without 32 and even longer afore i got told to do windblow ticket

Plus many no longer seem to care wot they churn out as long as they can tick a few boxes.

 

I'm guessing the when would be about 06?ish,  i think thats when i done my windblow.

Knew the trainer so only done a 1 day training (been doing it for years) sort of piggy backing on the end of a 32 course, ended up 'helping' the trainer as i've never seen such poor cutters ever, only picked up a saw the previous week, hadn't a clue where the bar tip was pointing when inside the tree.

Bloody dangerous as some were cuting right throu hinges from all sorts of angles and on decent sized timber 2-21/2 ft+ butts with plenty wieght behind them

That was the 1st time i knew u could do them al in a 1er.

 

Dunno if climbing ever had a time delay on it? But its another thing that having a bit of experience and time on the saw makes a massive difference, so when ur up a tree u shouldn't be making as many rookie mistakes as a far more dangerous environemt to make them

[spuddog0507]

1 hour ago, drinksloe said:

Guessing the why will be money for the training providers, get them in and they pay for a load of stuff they might not ever need/use. I wonder in the past how many folk ever done 32 or windblow? U look on the job sections here and very few folk do seem to have 32, with loads having 31 and climbing tickets 38,39.

I managed for years without 32 and even longer afore i got told to do windblow ticket

Plus many no longer seem to care wot they churn out as long as they can tick a few boxes.

 

I'm guessing the when would be about 06?ish,  i think thats when i done my windblow.

Knew the trainer so only done a 1 day training (been doing it for years) sort of piggy backing on the end of a 32 course, ended up 'helping' the trainer as i've never seen such poor cutters ever, only picked up a saw the previous week, hadn't a clue where the bar tip was pointing when inside the tree.

Bloody dangerous as some were cuting right throu hinges from all sorts of angles and on decent sized timber 2-21/2 ft+ butts with plenty wieght behind them

That was the 1st time i knew u could do them al in a 1er.

 

Dunno if climbing ever had a time delay on it? But its another thing that having a bit of experience and time on the saw makes a massive difference, so when ur up a tree u shouldn't be making as many rookie mistakes as a far more dangerous environemt to make them

a 2-21/2 ft butt is a nice size tree to drop as it can be done with a small saw and bar and not knowing where the bar is in the tree is just in expieriance and thats the point when things start to go wrong 

[The avantgardener]

9 hours ago, ABA Northern division said:

From Razman Capu the associate professor of Forestry in Transylvania .

just to bring that into perspective if you visit the hse web page for forestry related accidents you will see that 15,000 workers suffer from a work related illness & 27 fatalities, that is 27 people who didn't go home to their wives, children, mothers

 

The majority of injuries in UK Forestry are not even related to the chainsaw, they are caused by fat men falling in and out of tractors/harvesters, if you want to make Forestry safer, simple, pay the cutters a better rate and have the big players like Tilhill cut their investors profit margins, job done, but that’s another story.

[ABA Northern division]

As people who work in the industry, what would you want to be included in a training event? 

Do you think the very format of training/certification/refreshing in the uk is valid and value for money?

David 0793167075 [email protected]

[The avantgardener]

5 hours ago, ABA Northern division said:

As people who work in the industry, what would you want to be included in a training event? 

Do you think the very format of training/certification/refreshing in the uk is valid and value for money?

David 0793167075 [email protected]

I don’t have a problem with most of the training/ refreshers out there, a lot of the stuff I was taught is still valid and instructed, it’s the quality of the people coming into the industry for all the wrong reasons that has become the problem.

It has been a while since someone came working with us who was any good, tickets or not.

[spuddog0507]

9 hours ago, ABA Northern division said:

As people who work in the industry, what would you want to be included in a training event? 

Do you think the very format of training/certification/refreshing in the uk is valid and value for money?

David 0793167075 [email protected]

sorry about this but this is my thoughts on training and accessing, a person who wants to become a trainer/ accessor has to work in the industry for 5 yrs min, so you go and do your CS30/31 and say work one day a month cutting trees/using a saw but when 5 years are up you want to become a trainer, you sit a exam and you pass it, and now you are a fully qualified trainer but in the 50-60 days over 5 years that you have worked with trees what have you realiy learnt ? you have had your ticket 5 yrs but you ain,t worked much more than a couple of monthes in the job but yet you passed your exam and became a fully qualified trainer, we can all talk and bullshit our way through life but one good example of this point was a guy who worked with us did his CS32, i spent a few days with him showing him what to do and he picked it up quickly , then when the guy who was training him turned up on the following monday it was the pupil showing and telling the trainer how to do it, i watched this and fetched and carried stuff about i,e hammer wedges winch etc on this particular day and the trainer asked me several times if it was being done right , so my main point on this is this guy has got a certificate that says he is a fully qualified trainer and is allowed to charge £300+ for his days service but hasent got much idea of what he is doing is a very poor sevice and the trainer openly addmitted that he had very little to do with CS32  sized trees, and i think this is one of the reasons why the standards have dropped in the industry please correct me if i am wrong on this,

[The avantgardener]

20 minutes ago, spuddog0507 said:

sorry about this but this is my thoughts on training and accessing, a person who wants to become a trainer/ accessor has to work in the industry for 5 yrs min, so you go and do your CS30/31 and say work one day a month cutting trees/using a saw but when 5 years are up you want to become a trainer, you sit a exam and you pass it, and now you are a fully qualified trainer but in the 50-60 days over 5 years that you have worked with trees what have you realiy learnt ? you have had your ticket 5 yrs but you ain,t worked much more than a couple of monthes in the job but yet you passed your exam and became a fully qualified trainer, we can all talk and bullshit our way through life but one good example of this point was a guy who worked with us did his CS32, i spent a few days with him showing him what to do and he picked it up quickly , then when the guy who was training him turned up on the following monday it was the pupil showing and telling the trainer how to do it, i watched this and fetched and carried stuff about i,e hammer wedges winch etc on this particular day and the trainer asked me several times if it was being done right , so my main point on this is this guy has got a certificate that says he is a fully qualified trainer and is allowed to charge £300+ for his days service but hasent got much idea of what he is doing is a very poor sevice and the trainer openly addmitted that he had very little to do with CS32  sized trees, and i think this is one of the reasons why the standards have dropped in the industry please correct me if i am wrong on this,

This largely depends on what you  mean by ‘trainer’. You could get tickets and set yourself up as one right now with very little experience, set up a website and most novices wouldn’t know the difference, Micky Mouse’s Chainsaw Training Certificate wouldn’t be recognised by FC or FISA, not worth the paper it is printed on, same for the refresher.

LANTRA/ NPTC have stringent Technical Evaluations where you have to prove you can instruct and deliver knowledge that is well above your candidates, this is after a detailed theory based interview.

I personally have only had very good instructors in the past but I did pick them to suit my needs, no point going finding the best Arb instructor to teach you Technical Forestry units.

[The avantgardener]

30 minutes ago, spuddog0507 said:

sorry about this but this is my thoughts on training and accessing, a person who wants to become a trainer/ accessor has to work in the industry for 5 yrs min, so you go and do your CS30/31 and say work one day a month cutting trees/using a saw but when 5 years are up you want to become a trainer, you sit a exam and you pass it, and now you are a fully qualified trainer but in the 50-60 days over 5 years that you have worked with trees what have you realiy learnt ? you have had your ticket 5 yrs but you ain,t worked much more than a couple of monthes in the job but yet you passed your exam and became a fully qualified trainer, we can all talk and bullshit our way through life but one good example of this point was a guy who worked with us did his CS32, i spent a few days with him showing him what to do and he picked it up quickly , then when the guy who was training him turned up on the following monday it was the pupil showing and telling the trainer how to do it, i watched this and fetched and carried stuff about i,e hammer wedges winch etc on this particular day and the trainer asked me several times if it was being done right , so my main point on this is this guy has got a certificate that says he is a fully qualified trainer and is allowed to charge £300+ for his days service but hasent got much idea of what he is doing is a very poor sevice and the trainer openly addmitted that he had very little to do with CS32  sized trees, and i think this is one of the reasons why the standards have dropped in the industry please correct me if i am wrong on this,

You should have asked for your money back!

[spuddog0507]

7 minutes ago, The avantgardener said:

You should have asked for your money back!

it was NPTC and as you said you have to do a theory test as by the book, and both you and i know you can read as many books as you want , but you will not learn it like you will actually doing it hands on, trainer came for 2 and a half days charged my man for 1 day and came on the morning of accessment to talk to the accesser and to watch and learn a bit from him , he has all so been coming with us now and then (free of charge) on clearfell sites to bring his self up to standard as he put it, and yes agree trainers/acessors that are any good seem to be thin on the ground these days i personally know about 8 trainers 2 i would not give them time of day, 1 just sees it as a power trip, 1 is like a old women, 1 fafs and farts about and makes it last all day  1 is ok and 2 of them are sound as pound and these 2 i try to get if i can but i think every one else in the NW has the same idea , and yes my man did pass,