Brit Girls - Fat

[WesD]

On 19/12/2017 at 10:38, Arctostaphylos uva-ursi said:

flip a record to the B side etc. 

What’s this b side you speak of? I don’t see that option on my iPod? Is it like the dark side of the force? 

[Haironyourchest]

Village Idiot, I used to believe that stuff too. I think for the most part you're right, but it's a mechanistic view of the world that leads to what? If all human actions are preordained, and there is no free will, how can we judge anyone based on their actions? The default position on everything, would be "its not their fault, it was just their nature" - so we would have to tolerate everything, or accept that our own natures are incapable of tolerance beyond a certain point so don't blame us when we start killing people because we feel like it - after all, we don't have a choice in the matter. This is how the animal kingdom operates, from bacteria colonies to elephants. The law of the jungle, the law of instinct. Actually, a lot of human cultures seem to have been this way too. But what you describe as the "illusion" of self awareness, the choice to exercise will - not in an effort to satisfy instinct - but rather to override our animal nature for a higher purpose - well thats free will. The freedom to use the will as we see fit. In accordance with our higher mind, not our instincts. So what is the higher mind? Is that also a phantom of our brain electrochemistry? That is the crucial pivot of the argument: where do thoughts come from? Are they generated by the physical brain or by a higher non-physical power? If they are from the brain, then we are animals through and through, morality is an illusion, civilisation is an illusion, our cities are cultures are no more important than termite hills. We are, actually, a cancer on the planet which should be eradicated for the greater good of all nature. And nothing we can do will change that because we are incapable of change, originality, growth, etc, because we are just following our programming. But if we hold that thoughts come to us from a higher power, and our brains are just sensitive receptors - then we can exercise free will to act on those thoughts or not. Now we might say that even if thoughts came from a higher power, then we would still be puppets of that higher power, and without true free will. That may be the case, but its a better deal then being an animal. I have done thought transference experiments and derived knowledge of future events that there was no earthly way of knowing. Proved to my own satisfaction that thoughts are not a product of the brain, and information, intelligence is not confined by time and space. I can't prove it to you, but I choose to challenge the naturalistic argument whenever it appears - nothing personal!

[the village idiot]

52 minutes ago, Haironyourchest said:

Village Idiot, I used to believe that stuff too. I think for the most part you're right, but it's a mechanistic view of the world that leads to what? If all human actions are preordained, and there is no free will, how can we judge anyone based on their actions? The default position on everything, would be "its not their fault, it was just their nature" - so we would have to tolerate everything, or accept that our own natures are incapable of tolerance beyond a certain point so don't blame us when we start killing people because we feel like it - after all, we don't have a choice in the matter. This is how the animal kingdom operates, from bacteria colonies to elephants. The law of the jungle, the law of instinct. Actually, a lot of human cultures seem to have been this way too. But what you describe as the "illusion" of self awareness, the choice to exercise will - not in an effort to satisfy instinct - but rather to override our animal nature for a higher purpose - well thats free will. The freedom to use the will as we see fit. In accordance with our higher mind, not our instincts. So what is the higher mind? Is that also a phantom of our brain electrochemistry? That is the crucial pivot of the argument: where do thoughts come from? Are they generated by the physical brain or by a higher non-physical power? If they are from the brain, then we are animals through and through, morality is an illusion, civilisation is an illusion, our cities are cultures are no more important than termite hills. We are, actually, a cancer on the planet which should be eradicated for the greater good of all nature. And nothing we can do will change that because we are incapable of change, originality, growth, etc, because we are just following our programming. But if we hold that thoughts come to us from a higher power, and our brains are just sensitive receptors - then we can exercise free will to act on those thoughts or not. Now we might say that even if thoughts came from a higher power, then we would still be puppets of that higher power, and without true free will. That may be the case, but its a better deal then being an animal. I have done thought transference experiments and derived knowledge of future events that there was no earthly way of knowing. Proved to my own satisfaction that thoughts are not a product of the brain, and information, intelligence is not confined by time and space. I can't prove it to you, but I choose to challenge the naturalistic argument whenever it appears - nothing personal!

Great post!

Where I would disagree with you is in assuming that our desire to override our 'animal nature' is a demonstration of free will. This desire is as much a result of our unconcious brain processes as anything else. It is a good one that should be reinforced.

 

Nothing much changes in the way we deal with people's harmful actions if we reject the concept of free will. We need to protect society from bad brains. Any bad act would be viewed as a symptom of a mental 'illness' and whilst we would still need to lock people up, the emphasis would shift from punishment to trying to find an effective treatment.

 

I see no reason to hypothesise the existence of a higher power. If a higher power bestowed upon us free will and then we use this free will to conclude that the higher power doesn't exist, this is the fault of the higher power. To punish people in hell for exercising free will would be obscene. This is a bit of a moot point as I don't think you are refering to our traditional sense of an Abrahamic God.

 

What we do have is the ability (through practice) to tap into the experience of pure conciousness. A state in which to see the world as it truly is without the polluting influences of the constructed 'self'. This is a hugely liberating space in which to spend time. Pure conciousness is certainly a mystery, we suspect it arises from the state of our brains, but we don't yet know. Perhaps there is a 'higher power' at work but there is absolutely no reason to assume this, and many good reasons to reject it.

 

Your experience of prophecy is very interesting and it would be cool to drill down on exactly what is going on there. It is always worth keeping in mind though that we can't always trust our thoughts and intuitions. I of course include my own in this!

 

My brain is telling what I assume to be me that we are drifting somewhat off the point of the post. A bad habit which I shall attempt to prevent in the future by putting in place strategies that hopefully make it less likely to occur in the future! Perhaps these discussions are best held in a seperate thread?

Edited December 21, 2017 by the village idiot

[Haironyourchest]

Yeah, got a point...Let's get back to criticizing fatties!! ?

[WesD]

This started out as a very shallow insensitive thread created by someone with probably no mates instead of a lot which has probably just come to an abrupt end by some very deep thinking by someone with a hairy chest and an idiot?!?! 

 

I love this forum, you couldn’t make it up!

[matelot]

25 minutes ago, WesD said:

This started out as a very shallow insensitive thread created by someone with probably no mates instead of a lot which has probably just come to an abrupt end by some very deep thinking by someone with a hairy chest and an idiot?!?! 

 

I love this forum, you couldn’t make it up!

Hehhh! I'm just looking out for the health interests of fatties! I've just spent the last week on a cruise and the number of morbidly obese passengers really shocked me. 

 

The reality is that carrying about an extra few stone of fat puts massive pressure on hearts and joints. Imho, fatties are storing up a lot of health problems and shortening their life's.

 

I'm also sure being overweight impacts on the quality of life. 

[the village idiot]

22 minutes ago, WesD said:

This started out as a very shallow insensitive thread created by someone with probably no mates instead of a lot which has probably just come to an abrupt end by some very deep thinking by someone with a hairy chest and an idiot?!?! 

 

I love this forum, you couldn’t make it up!

You may well have experienced the state of pure conciousness for brief moments whilst snowboarding or skiing if you are well practiced. It is the feeling of there being no seperation between 'you' and the activity. There is only snowboarding. You are not judging or correcting, everything seems effortless and you are just experiencing. You have transcended the Self!

 

It is a wonderful experience and it is totally possible to train the brain to inhabit this space much more of the time. Some people have reportedly managed to transcend the Self permenantly. I personally am agnostic about these claims, but see no reason why it shouldn't theoretically be possible.

[WesD]

1 minute ago, matelot said:

Hehhh! I'm just looking out for the health interests of fatties! I've just spent the last week on a cruise and the number of morbidly obese passengers really shocked me. 

 

The reality is that carrying about an extra few stone of fat puts massive pressure on hearts and joints. Imho, fatties are storing up a lot of health problems and shortening their life's.

 

I'm also sure being overweight impacts on the quality of life. 

You are like a moral compass come lighthouse if I point towards you I give myself a shake and change Course. 

 

Fatties to use your reference have feelings and insecurities like the rest of us but you didn’t give people’s mental health a thought you just blurted like you normally do. How many female arborist are member or just read this forum? Who knows, how many are after you calling British girls fat probably none after thinking they should be supermodels in your eyes. 

 

Its a real shame with you, you usually have (deep breath) a good point but you make a fist of making it and always go too far. 

[WesD]

7 minutes ago, the village idiot said:

You are not judging or correcting, everything seems effortless and you are just experiencing. You have transcended the Self!

 

Yes when off piste everything just flows and materialises, no thinking just feel and reaction, on piste I’m always guessing what others will do and rarely let them go. 

[matelot]

 

19 minutes ago, WesD said:

You are like a moral compass come lighthouse if I point towards you I give myself a shake and change Course. 

 

Fatties to use your reference have feelings and insecurities like the rest of us but you didn’t give people’s mental health a thought you just blurted like you normally do. How many female arborist are member or just read this forum? Who knows, how many are after you calling British girls fat probably none after thinking they should be supermodels in your eyes. 

 

Its a real shame with you, you usually have (deep breath) a good point but you make a fist of making it and always go too far. 

Yeah fair one. Morbidly overweight people are likely to die decades earlier and spend time in a wheelchair due to their joints being destroyed.

 

However the real problem is people like me pointing these things out because I might hurt their feelings 

 

Anyway, according to the village idiot I can't help writing these posts. So it's bang out of order for you to criticise me for something I can't control.