Are trees within the grounds of a listed building protected?

[skyhuck]

My understanding has always been that simply being in the grounds, garden or curtilage of a listed building did not protect trees, is this true?

[daltontrees]

I can't speak for England, but in Scotland you would be right. I had this come up in a recent case and I phoned Historic Scotland to get absolute reassurance that listing did not confer protection on the trees in the curtilege. I was told I was correct and that separate legislation existed to protect trees i.e. CAs and TPOs.

[Roz]

Correct for England listed building status does not automatically protect trees - however as always a caveat you may want to check the deeds for any covenants although unusual and unlikely to be challenged there may be something relating to trees. I had one recently whereby in the deeds it stated that all trees were to be treated as if TPO'd in that an application had to be made to the council - there was no TPO on the trees ?!?!?

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

I started to investigate when I was asked to work on some trees that were growing atop a listed boundary wall....

 

Didn't get so far as getting as a definitive answer because the job didn't firm up, but early indications were that, if integral to the structure that is listed or likely to materially effect the structure, likely yes, if not, likely no.

 

Problem being, in that case, doing nothing would likely cause the wall to collapse, but doing something was administratively over burdensome.

 

Trees still there, wall still gradually falling into disrepair....

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

Incidental - listed buildings are sometimes with Conservation Areas, in my experience, and hence could be if within the property curtilage (or indeed outwith.)

 

The 'covenants' issue is a good one and worthy of inquiry / investigation.

 

Paul

[daltontrees]

Incidental - listed buildings are sometimes with Conservation Areas, in my experience, and hence could be if within the property curtilage (or indeed outwith.)

 

I had just such a case earlier in the week, the B Listed (= english II) church is in a Conservation Area, the tree now growing out of the bell tower masonry is big enough to be protected by CA legislation but is not protected by Listed Building legislation.

[skyhuck]

As I thought.

 

One of our local councils seem to suffer from "mission creep":sneaky2: They are the ones who issue replanting conditions on 211 notice "consents":sneaky2:

[Quercusbetrayer]

The comments reflect my opinion, in England not automatically but you'll usually find in towns and cities the listed buildings in a conservation area. Covenants can stretch back some time and you can view these online for a price using Land Regisry

 

Sent from my P00C using Arbtalk mobile app

[daltontrees]

Great user name there, Quercusbetrayer!

[skyhuck]

Hi. I doubt the LPA is suffering'mission creep'. What they are most likely suffering from is the lack of a qualified, professional, experienced tree officer.

 

Conservation area and TPO status will be a consideration whether the tree is within the curtilidge of a listed building or not, and should always be checked.

 

Regards the covenant issue. It's worth considering who enforces it, what authority they have to enforce it, how are they going to enforce it, what penalties can they impose, on what authority can they apply any penalties, and in respect of an LPA, do they not have better things to allocate their resources to.

 

Ed

 

Unfortunately the TO concerned is very experienced and of long standing. I fear they try to mislead in order to reduce the need to carry out the required paper work to have the proper protection/control.

 

The 211 notice condition attempt shows this perfectly, they should place a TPO on the tree in question, then ask the owner to apply for consent to fell, they could then lawfully place conditions. But I guess hoping to con the tree owner into thinking they have the power to apply conditions to a 211 notice reply is easier.