Slad

I feel the same. There is online discussion on the benefits of ringing. Given that everyone has a camera of some sort these days, why they can't they do it using pics and pattern matching? They can do facial recognition on people wearing masks and identify whales by their fin shape and patterns. Why not birds? Especially if you use a cheap £30 drone. One quick session and the birds are just scratching their heads wondering what it was, rather than scared (and planning to move house, in this case). I have an 8m ladder I used to fix the trail cam and it was a bitch to carry. But I carried it and a 4m foldable and could have reached the lower branches easily - that's what I bought the 8m one for in the first place. Thanks for all the comments on spikes; I'll forward that on to the people who are in charge of the ringers. They will always see the birds as being the priority and they need to know there's more to it than that. I think they ring the way they do out of habit and it's time they had a re-think on whether it's necessary and if it is, how do do it without impacting on other species of living things (including the landowner! ).

Do you mean that you would prefer to use a ladder and/or a rope to access the tree, rather than spurs?

Like any good Soap Opera, you're going to have to wait until next week to find out what happened next. Until then, can I ask a noob question please? I want to get my facts straight before talking with a few people. The trees we are talking about are mature pines; trunks more than18" at chest height with branches starting about 12' from the ground. They are living trees. Questions for the experts: 1. Is using spurs on living trees harmful? (I think I know the answer to that one, but I don't know how much) 2. If you were going to climb one of these trees (and you aren't going to be cutting anything) would you normally use rope or spurs to ascend? 3. ...and what is the Industry recommendation? (Because the rules and what people actually do are sometimes different 😉) Many thanks!

Hopefully we won't need to go down that route. As to the identity of the climber, the name I was given matches the same person here - can you spot him? The person who gave us the names also told us that they had also barred them from their property because of their behaviour.

In case you're interested, social media has turned up a couple of names. Everything been reported to the police and we'll see what they make of it. I'll post the names after speaking with the police. Let's just say there is a local raptor club which is going to get its wrist slapped...

Thanks for all the comments. There are gaff marks up both trees - they have climbed on two separate occasions. The footage is indeed very clear - flips lines, full kit and the woman is clearly carrying spurs which I expect you could identify by brand, the footage is that clear. I agree that going to the local Rag might just give the position of the nests away and I don't think anyone wins when a journalist gets involved. Likewise the local Raptor group; I've been in contact with them all along and they've been badgering me for a grid reference - but the Mrs doesn't want strangers coming round. Yes, and also you get some people in these groups whose "passion" borders on extremism. I want to know them before I give them any further info. Especially since they were useless when I asked for help. It's all a bit "take take take" and then 'thank you bye' and silence. Yup. That's what I reckon too. I think you are right. I think these are ringers from the local raptor group who were informed of the birds and were too lazy to get permission. Or had permission from a previous owner but were too lazy (and impolite) to pay a courtesy call before climbing. So we're going to put the pictures up on FB etc and find out who they are. Then let the rural crime team know. Then we're going to contact the body that issues the License and point out that if these clowns have a license, they are not following the policy (I've checked) and have already scared the birds from one nest and again from the second. So, they're bad at ringing, ignorant and disobeying their own governing body's policy. And about to lose that license. If people like these idiots upset all the landowners, then all the bird ringing stops and the birds they are supposed to be interested in lose out. Trespass isn't a crime though, so what could they be prosecuted for? Damage to trees?

This woman appears (IR photo) with binos for a good nose around. Then two of them stroll in, bold as brass a bit later. Anyone recognise any of them?

Thanks Patrick. I'm thinking something similar. On the DNA; you can get a license to disturb nests and licenses to have chicks/adults. I've seen how dog chipping has been used by the bad guys so wouldn't be surprised if someone's worked out a way of "laundering" chicks. In other news, I had a trail cam covering the approaches which I recovered last night. Who would like to see the pictures of the illegal climber(s)?

Yes, mature trees and both climbed. You're right; they are very big and plenty of branches to make things interesting. Anyone got any ideas how to make the climb more difficult?

Good point and thanks. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to look after them and I'm fuming that someone has trespassed and done them in, but being able to do at least some work in the Summer would be helpful.

Looking at your picture, the slope is only 1:1 in places, the rest is less steep than your 1:1.45. For that, the local farmer can get his very large, very wide tractor + mower up most of it, but it's a beast and I can't afford one. I agree with you about it not being drivable though. Getting pros in is a good idea, but I want to do as much myself as possible. I could get them in for a bit and learn from them, but I'll never have the cash for the pro machinery. AHPP - yes, that's the sort of thing I was thinking. Unless it's for milling, the wood can be cut so it isn't too big. Googling Norwegian reeve now

I have two nests on my land. The first nest was evacuated and I spotted spur marks going up the tree, so nothing good had happened there. The Raptor club people said it was unusual for people to take eggs now, so I am guessing the climb was not to ring birds but probably just their necks. People usually shoot the nest with a shotgun according to them, but with me/neighbours so close, this charmer went for a more direct approach. They or some others moved to a second nest. Birds fledged and the adults, as said above, are sharp eyed and noisy; if you go to have a look, you have to go quietly otherwise there is a warning cry and the chicks duck down and the parents try and lead you off by calling and flying in large circles. Then it all went quiet. Then a young fledgling started flying around crying and making a lot of noise. It's done so for about 2 weeks. I checked the nest; gaff marks up the side. Parents and other chick gone. When we first found out about the goshawks, I phoned the local Raptor club up. They were really keen to know where they are, to come and ring them and do whatever else makes them happy. But when I asked about protecting the second nest, they were completely bl**dy useless. Nothing. So I'm doing my CS38/2013, I'll be getting a license to disturb and I will be putting up cameras - and not some academic with a spreadsheet to fill. As sort of pointed out above, I don't want other people with constant video coverage of my land thanks. I'm on the verge of a rant - so I'll continue. (Get some popcorn folks) I ask if there is anything I can do to protect them. "Sure, cease all operations within 450m". Question to the floor: how big is your garden?! 450m covers our place, an agricultural yard, a number of paddocks and fields, 5 public footpaths, about 12 neighbours, three busy roads and a pub. And as soon as I tell any of them about the nest, in theory they can all be done if they 'recklessly' do what they normally do, or in other words disturb the nest. Bearing in mind the goshawks were happy to nest there "as is" (and in places like Germany, they are an urban bird). The point of this venting is that if people who are masters of their own window box, but nothing else, invoke laws affecting people who have actual land, they need to be sensitive to the unintended consequences. I stopped work immediately on our land and have done what I can to protect the nests, despite the fact it has set me back by 4 months. I've kept quiet so that the birds don't get more enemies amongst the locals. But despite that, it looks like someone has taken the law into their own hands because of the risk the birds will affect them (be it on their shoots, their businesses etc) or because they just want eggs/birds- and those who profess an academic interest in the birds appear unwilling and unable to do anything to assist, but are happy to turn the landowner and all living close by against the birds by spouting pointless restrictions better suited to the Scottish wilderness. I feel better for that. I'll feel even better when I catch the b*stards climbing my trees next year. Rant over.

My read of it is that outside nesting season, you can destroy the tree/nest. So if the labourer had waited until September, there would have been no further action.

Yes, we mainly want wood downhill. At the moment, just clearing out the dead trees/leaners for winter, plus the recent ash dieback/suicides. I can cut to whatever lengths but we'd like to get 4" lengths and bigger logs down to split at the house. A big tractor can make it up the slope; I tried a 1.5 T digger and it was not going to happen. Would a gaitor or polaris handle steep slopes? Are tracked dumpers stable enough when full going down a 1:1? Thanks for the thinking on the winches. Everything could be done by gravity as I can get the logs across to the top of the main slope. I've got lots of rigging gear; are there any big downsides to sending wood down on a continuous loop of rope? I can use an ID for control... Am I just going to shred my ropes? I've got 12mm polyprop I don't mind losing, but it is very "dynamic", and you need swivels everywhere or you end up with blue dreadlocks.

We have some woodland, <20 acres, which is on a steep slope - 100m from top to bottom. Road access is possible at the top and bottom but we don't have anything other than domestic cars and trailer (and driving in the wood is probably too difficult). The wood is a mix of mature coniferous and some deciduous (W8). Getting wood down to the house is tricky; getting equipment up the slope is also tricky. We don't want to spend just fortunes, just make life a little easier as we manage the wood and feed the log burners. What would you suggest please?

Thank you everyone - every day is a school day! Dropped the tree as recommended - many thanks everyone. Learnt a couple of things: A new chain is so much better than a re-sharpened one (I'm not good at this it turns out) I need a bigger bar You end up with an 8 inch hinge if your ash has rot in it Thanks - great forum

I can't really leave it - the powerline is just out of reach, but there is a house at the bottom of the slope and they'd probably appreciate it being moved. Thanks Patrick, I have a 8m ladder so that's definitely an option. Update - the fallen "branch" is actually an uprooted ash. The standing ash has been damaged by it. Slight lean to the left of the picture (and where all the weight is). The tree is in a steep slope so the ground on the downhill side is much lower than the uphill side (so awkward to cut, and a dangling branch up above). Does that change things?

Yes, I think so

(Putting this in the Training section as I'm new to all this - please move if it's in the wrong place) Came home last night to find an ash in this state. No wind, no lightening. Guessing dieback? (never been close to a tree with dieback before). Two split branches. I wouldn't climb this (and my course isn't for a few weeks anyway); any thoughts on the best approach to dropping this? Power cable is some way off, ash at top of hill. Was thinking of dropping it across the slope to the left as there is plenty of room and the hanging branch is on that side anyway.

I'm doing my climbing course shortly so thought I would cheer myself up reading the HSE Case studies on chainsaw fatalities, as you do. There are a surprising number of chainsaw fatalities where the person died due to a cut to the neck but I can't see any helmets with side neck protection. Is this just because they'd be too hot to use? Health and Safety Case in Forestry and Arboriculture: Case studies WWW.HSE.GOV.UK A selection of case studies relating to incidents and accidents in Tree Work.

Thank you for the link and the advice on knots. Good point - I'm paying to be taught these things 🙂

I can see why a VT is called a VT - I didn't know I'd need to learn a foreign language! 🙂 Struggling to find Tech Guide 1 - is it the .pdf in Draft please? https://www.trees.org.uk/Trees.org.uk/media/Trees-org.uk/Documents/Tech Guides/Tech-Guide-1-Draft-Consultation.pdf

Thank you - that's very useful. I have some kit but was hoping not to need to buy e.g. helmets before learning what is best. (The trainer has just told me everything is supplied so that's all good.) Thank you for the knot information; could you tell me if there is another name for double bowline and scaffold knot please? (A lot of the knots mentioned have different names/variations on the knot-tying sites.)

Hi, I'm looking to do the (CS38) 2013 Tree climbing and Aerial rescue course soon and was wondering if anyone had any tips for this course please? Also, is all kit provided/hired on these courses or do you usually bring your own kit/helmets etc? Cheers, John