Jon@CareFell

Or possibly some of the rigging rings, they are excellent value for their capabilities?

Brilliant that you came back with a comprehensive reposte Martin 

 

As ever, here comes the “but”...

 

But, I’m confused.....

 

You say you’ve been through the mill with various trades, and, as a consequence,  had a go at some things yourself (tree felling included - which ended badly), and you’ve been generally unhappy with some elements, and gone so far as court action.....

 

And I can relate to all of that having also renovated an 1830s farmhouse from near dereliction. I feel you Bro!

 

But the but is....

 

The biggest lesson from my journey was CHOOSE THE SERVICE PROVIDER WISELY! Sometimes £50, £100, £150/day cash for a casual labour type scenario is entirely appropriate, sometimes is just isn’t. 

 

The “I wouldn’t get out of bed for less than £100/day” quote seems to have made quite an impact upon you. But frankly, the ‘cost’ to an employer of providing a man (or woman) @ £100/day is close to 1 ½ times that so why would anyone bother to get out of bed, to get someone out of bed, to work for £100/day?  

 

That just leaves the option of ‘the man from the pub’ who will do it for £50-100 cash to top up thier Social (whilst undermining the very principles of the Welfare State so as to have more disposable cash to throw ale down their Gregory.)

 

Take the cheap option and shoulder the responsibility of what happens if things go bad....

 

or

 

Outsource the job AND the responsibility to someone that you can hold to account if things go bad....

 

Rarely is it possible to have both!

 

 

 

 

Some very good points. A client of mine had some issues with a tradesman, not tree work mind but it is a case in point.

He got a cheap quote from a chap and the guy he employed had one of his machines break, it was probably old and poorly maintained. He then had to go and fix said machine and come back. Then, I expect, realising he was making no money rushed the job leaving it half done. Not only was it half done he caused damage while doing it. Not everything came to light until a few months later. The upshot of all this was that my customer had to pay someone else to finish the job and was left with a load of damage that he actually fixed himself.

He is probably a nice bloke who was annoyed, let’s give him the benefit of the doubt. I think the original post was a little tactless (unless he was trolling, in that case it was excellently worded) but this has descended into name calling. It annoys a lot of people, me included, that the industry is undervalued and pricing jobs at wages + overheads with no profit or thought for kit replacement, insurance etc. is a definite problem but I have a few friends who are farmers and they are decent people doing a hard job. Let’s try and not get offensive, it does not make us look too good.

Does that include VAT?[emoji3]

It’s people like you who are devaluing the industry.
[emoji41]

Of course it would be plus VAT, I don’t work for nothing guys!

What do you farm Martin?

I’ll do it for a tenner and a curly wurly!

This is a bit off topic but I had a customer tell me our wood was unacceptable because it was uneven sizes and had some bits of bark in it (these had fallen off the logs while drying). They had been used to getting wood from a processor and riddling bucket and we are tree surgeons and only sell a bit of firewood on the side but they are Arb arisings and are not as neat as forest grown processed timber. Majority hardwood (80%) all well seasoned and 1cu bags instead of builders bags. But it was still not what they wanted because of how it looked! I take my hat off to you guys that make it work properly, I will be selling the wood unprocessed and wholesale from now on as it is a lot of aggro and we are real busy with the tree work all year round.

£550 - £150 is good money for a physical job

Could you explain what you mean by this Macca?

Pm sent.

Then go VAT registered and completely restructure.

Was it this fox?

11 hours ago, GlobalNewark said:

What you thinking Jon?

Just wondering what they might have been traded in for? 

Trade ins? [emoji848]

Smoothly done! [emoji108]

As the nose of the chainsaw can “run” along things if caught, could those arm protectors possibly make it worse if caught at the wrong angle? Someone catching there arm is rarely fatal, the neck is another story.

For example we reduced these today over a load of phone and power lines fences and a road.

Jon, how do you manage your work position stability-wise? Seems the pivot point of the debate is one handing gives you a third point of contact - ie. your free hand, which increases safety. As I understand it, it's the cut&hold that's the problem, rather than one hand full reach perpendicular cut. Would you concur? I've done a straight stem takedown on spikes with my rear handle, no problem - would rather work with a rear handle in that situation. But still considering a battery top handle, so far have done everything else with the silky, but it's getting me down. I just can't see myself being happy with only my feet/shins for contact and stability. Maybe next time I'll try using the silky two handed for all cuts and see...

I just get into a comfortable work position and use my main line and side strop to brace, after so many years it has become second nature. I think you are right that it can be done safely but have you ever noticed that if you move say your tool karabiner on your harness how often you reach to where your old one was to find you have moved it? It takes a while to adjust to the new position. Accidents more often than not happen when you are tired and/or absent minded and on auto pilot. How much of climbing becomes second nature? The more you one hand the higher the chance of an accident.

That is not to say that kickback cannot occur with two hands on the saw but you have better control with two. I wonder what the statistics say, how many accidents are caused by one handed chainsaw use? I know a lot of fatalities or serious injuries happen while using a saw one handed but is that due the inherent risk of it, the prevalence of one handed use within the industry or just complacency?

I know I have seen a lot of climbers using a saw one handed to save moving into a better/safer work position, I have also seen “safe” one handed chainsaw use but I recon 95% of what I have seen does not look safe but does look easy!

This is a a tragic and needless death. I have got a little slack recently with the odd cut but I climbed for nearly 10 years without one handing. Yes that is right. Without one handing. A step cut is not hard, you don’t need to cut and hold. A friend from college died just three months out of college at 21 and it really affected me. You just don’t need to one hand at all. I think it is a cultural thing. Every one rushing to get the job done to squeeze some money out of a cheap quote. Why? Do you often see other trades rushing about like a lot of us do? When will we all learn?! I for one am going to go back to not one handing at all. It is easily possible. Not even hard to do.

This is a a tragic and needless death. I have got a little slack recently with the odd cut but I climbed for nearly 10 years without one handing. Yes that is right. Without one handing at all. A step cut is not hard, you don’t need to cut and hold. A friend from college died just three months out of college at 21 and it really affected me. You just don’t need to one hand at all. I think it is a cultural thing. Every one rushing to get the job done to squeeze some money out of a cheap quote. Why? Do you often see other trades rushing about like a lot of us do? When will we all learn?! I for one am going to go back to not one handing at all. It is easily possible. Not even hard to do.

I don’t really “do” engines... but what you say seems to make pretty good sense to me (from a nuggets perspective)

Legislate for Diesel engine, legislate for wood stoves etc....

Whilst simultaneously seeking to expand Heathrow....

Doesn’t seem to make much sense overall?

In my opinion the reason bio fuels have not been invested in and pushed further is because of lobbying from petrochemical companies, the reason there is more and more legislation for Diesel engines is that we will all have to buy new cars/ plant with new engines from large multinationals, the reason stoves are being legislated against is that by its very nature it is hard to profiteer from wood due to the supply being hard to control and yet again the expansion of Heathrow will bring more money to the city. Cynical I know, the idea of a cleaner environment is fantastic but I think it is used as a smokescreen to generate ££££ while keeping people on side because it is eco.
They have known about the pollutants from diesel engines for ages but it was only yesterday that diesel was going to save the planet!

Still not much we can do about it.

Has anyone else had the thought that matelot and Bolt could be the same person? Sort of like some super double troll? Anyone seen them in the same room together?

Cheers. That is a corker of a knot.

Great website Patrick.

What is that knot used in the hell of a job video?

Here is my ten pence.

I have always tried to charge as much as is possible while still leaving the customer happy with the service we have delivered. Increase the value of the service if you will.

I also pass that on to my staff and we all get paid better. Better paid staff work better and if you can offer more in the first place you get better qualified and motivated staff. They in turn are more productive and you get more done to a better quality which all equals more money.

I have always tried to think about how I can offer a service that people will pay more for and how we can get more done in a day to ultimately charge more. What is the point in investing money in more kit and growing a larger business if I am not making more profit and a return on my investment?

I don’t like ever hearing I am the cheapest when multiple quotes are involved. If I was squeezing the margins and have no contingency then what happens if something goes wrong? If I was to end up making no or little money I could end up rushing the job or be tempted to cut corners thus offering a poorer service that is of less value and one can get a reputation for “cheap work” quite easily and, unfortunately, then that is what you can end up with.

That leads to safety issues but that is another discussion entirely.

That is just my opinion and what has worked for us. I am always looking at how I can charge more for what we do while maintaining integrity.

While we were clearing out some bushes for the local county court we found what must have been over 20 used syringes. It was unbelievable how many were under there!