Marcus B-T

The training seesions are continuing until End April then they will be offline until the end of the year. The posting I gave out earlier was because some people thought they were already off line. Also a warning to those who keep postponing. We still have a few places left.

We have around 500 examples of trees cut down after a thermal image was taken, most on development sites and the like and around an extra 12,000 where increment core samples were taken and evaluated. I am just putting together a new pdf to put a bit more context into what we have done and what we hope to achieve. The term decay detection is a bit old hat and the whole process is more than just this, if you look at some of the other postings on how fugi and trees interact you will understand why I am making such a bold statement. More importantly thermal imaging (because it measures physiological response) measures functional wood not just sound wood so you understand the physiological status of the tree and how it will respond in the future. The technology does of course have its limits like all technology, but so does VTA and anything in life for that matter. Regarding the complexity of interpretation, we have a full training scheme and cpd scheme to help people with this. We do not just sell the cameras and dump you in the mire. One long-standing consultant who does not want to be named signed up for the training scheme because he wanted the training and is quite happy for us to do the thermal imaging on his behalf. Not what we set out to do but there you go. As I said we have made a great deal of progess over the last 4 years so it is probably time to update the information we have out there.

I think the saying is 'truth is stranger than fiction'.

Not just two forms but thousands of forms. If you imagine it more as a sliding scale rather than either or, this is probably close to reality. The are things called Quantitative Trait Loci (QTL) and these are genes that don't just switch on and off but are expressed more and less in reseponse to changes in the environment. It is highly likely that both the trees and the fungi have them, and so as the environment, the trees and the fungi change, the expression of the QTL will change.

Thanks for this. Some people are going to think I paid you to post the pdf. It even has a picture of the camera we have tested. What it says in the document is absolutly true. Getting the right camera and training is essential. We collaborate heavily with FLIR to get it try to provide the best we can and we don't rest on our laurals and always look to improve.

Right here goes. Now you have to understand two things before you read on. Firstly I am not a mycologist so I am simplifying as much for myself as for you who are reading this. Secondly it is simplified since if I went in to details it would be a very long posting. The fungi like basidiomycota (your mushrooms and toadstools) can produce sexual spores (male and female bits) and when these come together they form a new fungi. Now both spores could come from the same fungus but they could come from other fungi. Some fungi will exclusively cross fertilise with other fungi, this means there is potential for a large amount of genetic variation, because each time two fungi get togther they share thier genes and produce a whole range of new fungi that represent the genetic makeup of both of them (this is fairly straight forward and if you think about how kids share their parent genes you will get the picture here). Now this means that rather than their being one type of fungi or two types or what ever, there is a range of fungi of the same species. Some may prefer to be saprophytic and live on dead material, others will prefer to take this a stage further and invade the 'dead' materail in the centre of large trees, others will be truely pathogenic and look to invade the living parts of trees. But remeber we are potentially still talking about the same species. Howevere, when the prefered food source is used up the fungus will look to what is still available, and because it has some of the genes that allow it to use these other sources it switches to them, but it isn't as good as others and so its use of the resources is slow waiting for the tree to become stressed perhaps, or waiting for dead material to be partly broken down. If the tree is invaded by a pathogen it can react and counteract the presence. The success of this process is partly then down to the genetics of the tree but also the genetics of the fugus, i.e. how pathogenic it is. When I heard all this a little light bulb went on in my head. Because what this will manifest itself as to us with visual symptoms is 'variability' and 'uncertainty' as to what is happening. And isn't that just what we see in our day to day observations of trees and fungi? We have perhaps what we might call expected or usual symptoms with a particular fungi and tree association, but then we have a number of other examples that just don't seem to fit. This is genetic variation of fungi and hosts in action. So you might think this makes it imposible to call what is happening, but no. If you can understand the way in which genetics and environment interact in these systems then they become understandable, i.e. you understand why the variations happen and the mystery is removed. Please do reply and coment on this. Regards M B-T

Andy This was what my PhD was on and still an area I have a great deal of interest in, there are various methods and I can probably jog your memory or even give you a better method. Give me a call 07870 280235. I don't charge for this kind of thing. SO don't think your going to get old some consultancy. Can't guarentee I wont try to flog you a thermal imaging camera though. Marcus B-T

We have just finished trialing a FLIR thermalmimaging camera that is less than £6,000 and is fit for purpose.

I believe it oes back to the 1880's and is available on line. Should point out that in the scheme of thing with such low numbers 2 or 5 is very little different in fact.

Cambridge Science Festival Strikes Again. Just come out of a talk on risk by the top risk mathmetician from Cambridge University. I am now convinced that there is group of 8-10 year olds in Cambridge that know more about risk than most arb consultants. It was fantastic!! Who said science or maths was boring. He put across some very complex ideas in very simple terms that were easy to understand. I also found out how many people are kiled by trees every year from the ONS data, answer usually two.

Just had a conversation with a top mycologist at Cambridge University about why things like Meripilus (No the network hasn't died that was one of the reasons I made contact with her) become pathogenic. And my giddy aunt is it all potentially complicated but realy interesting. I am going to try to distill the info down into something that makes scence to everyone (including myself), but just to say our perception of what is going on is likely to be so wrong it's frightening. Also would like to say if you ever want something to get the kids interested in science and learning get them along to the Cambridge Science Festival (actually if you don't have kids and you want to learn more about science get yourselves along) there is loads of stuff going on tomorrow Saturday 21st. Google Cambridge Science Festival and loads of stuff will come up.

My three co-authors and I have had a publication accepted in the journal 'Knowledge Based Systems' It is in press at the moment and pre-press copies can be purchased from Science Direct, a free abstract is also available (go for this option if I were you). This and the other publications we have in the pipeline will hopefully counter those who have critisised us for not publishing in refereed journals, you will also notice we have gone for high impact journals that have copies available online rather than going for the easier option of publishing in journals with a less rigorous refereeing systems. Regards Marcus B-T

Selective delignification Tony, nice one. Could also be a combined effect of poor rooting (movement) and either degredation of either cellulose or lignin, but lignin would be preferential I guess. Just had a request to train someone in thermal imaging in NZ. Given they seem to not tooch trees there I hope it comes off so we get some even better data on the amount of decay trees can stand without management, although species/fungi will be different.

Thanks Andy Great Link:001_smile:

I think this is a realy important area to consider and might be important in all sorts of ways. Fungi-tree relationships/times to prune/speed of retrenchment/stimulation of regrowth following pollarding. I have an idea at the back of my head that timing of pruning could be very important but that we don't realy understand it yet. I would like to think we are trying to reproduce what happens naturaly, but are we? It all goes back to physiology again. The physiological priority will change at diferent times of year. So when pruning takes place we must consider, nutrient cycling, photosynthates, and water (these are the major ones) but we also need to consider the hormonal controls which will work with us or against us depending on the time of year.

This is slightly playing devils advocate but what is the scientific basis for it not being a good time for prunning? I have never been able to find anything definate in the literature but I would welcome some sound guidance on this point. Reason I say this is that although from a photosynthate point of view it might be a bad time (althogh I am not completely convinced) from an hydraulic point of view it is much better than later in the year. So which is more important? My my how I like to make people think

I shall ask my wife but again quite happy to come over for the cost of a lunch and a pint to get some more info.

If you have any problems let me know and I will dig out a contact, alternatively if you stand me a lunch and a beer I will come and have a look with my thermal camera out of curiosity

Consider. What kind of environment is the tree in, one where a large proportion of the water is diverted away? One where there is an upper layer that is not very gas permiable, leading to a build up of CO2 and Ethylene? Then think is this antagonistic to vascular infections? Does this all weaken the tree? Pests will now greatly diminish the vitality of the canopy. Splits, canker and other internal rots will not repair themselves. Tree done for. (physiology is the key to all life) Here endeth the lesson

Essex County Council have a person who has reponsibility for Cricket Bat Willows. My wife is an expert in Cricket Bat Willows though the usual kid thing has meant she hasn't had involvement with the industry for a few years. Also we have looked at wilows with watermark and other diseases in willows and it shows up quite nicely with the thermal imaging. Have to say we have limited numbers of samples, it isn't the most popular request we have for the technology so don't know at what stage it shows up in younger trees. But from what I know of the disease from my wife we should be able to pick it up moderately early and we know we can quantify the effects in larger trees 30 cm diameter plus. From the symptoms you have described it could be watermark disease. Marcus B-T

Forgot to finish off with. The ideal system would be a layer of finely chopped barley straw, covered with cardboard or paper, with a composted or inert mulch on top.

Just seen all this and have a little bit of science to add. If you put mulch straight unto grass you tend to release a great deal of free nitrogen as nitrate or ammonium salts. The cardboard not only is a physical barrier but also because it is high in carbon but low in nitrogen tends to lock up the free nitrogen. Wood chip is not good at suppressing this because either it has nitrogen in their that isn't stabilised or it it too intert t have an effect. You can also use barley straw. You might have a quick lookat waht comes up as weeds in theory if all is going well you should see fewer grasses and more flowering plants. This is because grasses are more N sensitive than lowering plants.

Due to the fact we already have over 30 Licensees including France and Ireland the last training course in the UK before the Autumn will be 27th-28th April, Nottingham. Regards Marcus 07870 280235 [email protected]

Due to the fact we already have over 30 Licensees including France and Ireland the last training course in the UK before the Autumn will be 27th-28th April, Nottingham. Regards Marcus 07870 280235 [email protected]

My advice would be start by looking up the term IPM (Integrated Pest Management) basically start of with the biology of the tree; what promotes trees growth, physiological strength etc and also understand what is negative to this. Then understand how the fungus enters the tree, and what stimulates its growth within the tree and conversely what counteracts it. Also think about what is acceptable damage; even in fruit production there is a certain amount of acceptable damage that can be withstood. Be careful though a great deal of information about fungal lifecycles is not necessarily correct and a great deal of the information about how fungi move through wood does not take into account the effects of stress or wood drying processes. Think about prevention rather than 'cure', most 'cures' are not economically or environmentally sustainable.