Accountant makes major VAT return error...

[richy_B]

I appreciate they have to enforce 'the rules' but, as you said, makes no commercial sense.

 

Obviously in the case of criminal court it costs lots of money to the tax payer to bring people to 'justice' and I assume in many cases leads to custodial sentences. The hope is remove wrong doers from society for a bit and hope for a bit of reformation of character.

 

When the case is purely monetary it makes no sense to spend £10,000 to recoup £1k. I doubt these are ground breaking cases and will re-write laws for them making future cases easier. It's just throwing money away in a vain hope of looking 'effeftive'.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Having dealt with HMRC for over 25 years, there's no logic or commercial sense in a great many of their decisions. During the initial years of training, a partner once said to me that if an inspector was any good, he'd be poached to work in practice for twice the money, leaving the dross in the tax office. And to be fair, he was right.

 

100% agree! The wife asked why I hadn't sought disciplinary action against the mug I've had to deal with - get him sacked or at least removed from my case. As much as I wanted to, and maybe will seek to later, I decided, despite the frustration, it was better to deal with an idiot than a competent operator.

 

If you look at the record of HMRC's case wins, it makes poor reading. Their record against contractors is prime example, spending tens of millions of pounds chasing a couple of hundred grand which is all politically motivated.

 

Same with Kevin's case, no common sense or commercial awareness. And at the end of the day, the judgements like that tend to be easily got around and with no substance.

 

I had to seriously bite my tongue in court. I actually said out loud "I'm going to have to stop myself before I say something inappropriate."

 

I wanted to press a particular point, it would have changed the outcome (not by a massive amount financially) and would have resulted in an Upper Tribunal being inevitable. I'm bitter because I had to concede a point which might have favoured me to the tune of about £500, but would have resulted in further delay, more admin, another court appearance, more stress, more lost time, more family strife etc, etc.

 

After a building dispute some years ago, a solicitor said to me "Mr Johnson, the courts are full of 'men of principle' that have been relieved of their money for the sake of proving a point."

 

That's where I was with this.... Carry on the fight out of principle and suck up the associated financial and emotional costs, or let it ride and be content with what I'd already achieved.

 

Can't avoid the bitterness it has created though and I will ensure I re-coup that money through every (legal) means possible. Things that I might not have bothered with before, every single debit penny will now be passed through the accounts and I will take every opportunity to denigrate HMRC.

 

I appreciate they have to enforce 'the rules' but, as you said, makes no commercial sense.

 

Obviously in the case of criminal court it costs lots of money to the tax payer to bring people to 'justice' and I assume in many cases leads to custodial sentences. The hope is remove wrong doers from society for a bit and hope for a bit of reformation of character.

 

When the case is purely monetary it makes no sense to spend £10,000 to recoup £1k. I doubt these are ground breaking cases and will re-write laws for them making future cases easier. It's just throwing money away in a vain hope of looking 'effeftive'.

 

That's because they are unaccountable public sector drones with no personal risk or responsibility attached to the decisions they make - however random and inappropriate. Makes me spew!

 

We all know what happens when society loses faith in the institutions of law, order and administration.

[richy_B]

It's difficult as once you have embarked down a route you feel invested in it but I can't help feel that solicitor you mentioned was right when he said the court are full of 'men of principles'. Please don't take that as a criticism and good on your for standing up for yourself. My view is spending a bit of money is one thing but days/weeks of your life you can't ever get back. The stress of it all too can take a hefty toll.

 

It took me several 'mistakes/misadventures' to realise I was chasing lost causes. As a business, one of the best thing I learnt was to spot one quickly one and know when to cut my losses. Not necessarily your case though and good to luck you with it.

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

It's difficult as once you have embarked down a route you feel invested in it but I can't help feel that solicitor you mentioned was right when he said the court are full of 'men of principles'. Please don't take that as a criticism and good on your for standing up for yourself. My view is spending a bit of money is one thing but days/weeks of your life you can't ever get back. The stress of it all too can take a hefty toll.

 

4 years start to finish!

 

It took me several 'mistakes/misadventures' to realise I was chasing lost causes. As a business, one of the best thing I learnt was to spot one quickly one and know when to cut my losses. Not necessarily your case though and good to luck you with it.

 

[kevinjohnsonmbe]

Finally got a response from HMRC complaints department yesterday.

 

Just an extract:

 

"...My review has shown that whilst we have followed our procedures, we have made mistakes. We have not handled your tax affairs as well as we could have done. For this reason, I am partially upholding your complaint. I have authorised a payment of £50 in recognition of the worry and distress caused by this mistake..."

 

On the one hand, good news - acknowledgement and acceptance (in part) of HMRC fault.

 

On the other, £50?

 

Are you having a laugh chopper? Stand by for the claim which is going to need your starting point to be, add 2 zeros then double it!