Planting a small woodland for fuel

[18 stoner]

Only just found this thread and you do have some very valid points Steve, especially in your latest post about high nutrient uptake of gums.

 

But, i noticed your comments about oak and beech;

 

Alder and Ash are indeed phenomenal growers,as pioneer species should be.However,Oak and particularly Beech will come up beautifully underneath them.

 

Are you saying in a mixed woodland, of the above species oak and beech will do well "underneath" as in my experience these species are the ones that suffer from being "supressed" when mixed?

 

Just curious, perhaps i am misunderstanding your posts slightly. Pete.

[Saw-sick Steve]

Pete, I can only speak from my own experience, the vast majority of which has been gathered while working on the wetter, 'Atlantic' side of the country - mainly Wales, Cornwall and Devon. Points that authors such as Peterken and Rackham make are often applicable to the drier side of the UK, and aren't always relevant to the situation down here.

Anyways, bearing that in mind, a lot of my work has been in Woodland management in one form or another, usually coppicing or coppice restoration, and wood pasture restoration. In Oak coppice, felling results in widespread seeding of Birch and Rowan on acidic, nutrient poor slopes, with the addition of Hazel, Alder, Sycamore and Ash on the more fertile slopes and valley bottoms. Established Oak coppice will come up through this, eventually shading out all competition (with a couple of exceptions!) as it closes canopy.

Work on Wood Pasture restoration is really interesting, an area I've recently finished consisted of very mature Oak (quercus robur) that had grown up in an open landscape to produce trees of a glorious spreading nature - but relatively short compared to 'High Forest' types.

The really interesting bit regarding natural succession has resulted after a change in management led to a cessation of grazing about 50 yrs ago. This has led to a 'free for all', with trees seeding everywhere. The result is a patchwork of different species, with the 'pioneer ' types mentioned above dominating as expected. However , underneath the Alder, Birch, Blackthorn, Hawthorn and Hazel, smaller Oak, Beech and Holly are coming through,.

If we could accelerate the process by a couple of hundred yrs, I would expect to see a landscape dominated by Beech, Holly and some Oak, leading to eventual dominance by Beech and Holly. These two highly shade tolerant species will come up through anything, with the possible exception of Sycamore ( but will outlive that!). Left unchecked, most of our Oak woods would evolve into Beech/Holly stands.

So how come more of our woods haven't evolved this way (and many have in Cornwall)? The answer lies in the missing component from so many of our woodland ecosystems - large herbivores. I run a small suckler herd for restoration grazing and the impact they have on selection of tree species is huge. Beech and Sycamore are particular favourites, and in winter Holly and Ivy, preventing their dominance and achieving a more 'natural' balance of species.

Well I appear to have rambled on a bit, but its a subject I find fascinating(clearly:blushing:). To summarise, Oak will grow up through many 'pioneer' species but is just as happy on open ground, whereas Beech will come up through absolutely anything bar Holly and other Beech - and in my experience actually does better with other trees to 'draw it up'.

Any other questions, fire away and I'll try not to bore the ass off ya'.

[18 stoner]

Very good, interesting post Steve.

 

Although i have done an amount of woodland work, unfurtunately ive never worked any coppice woodland.

 

I guess the soil type has a lot to do with succession of various species. The majority of woodlands i have worked in have been on "wold" soil types that are usually a maximum of 6-8inches of chailk based soil over solid chalk bed. Although oak can grow in these situations, mostly i have noticed if in competition with (especially) ash, there is a very high percentage of whips, wolves and generally supressed trees. Also, in a smaller percentage is beech in this same environment.

 

Many thanks for the detailed reply Steve, and feel free to disect my comments:blushing:

[paradise]

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[BigRedDog]

I thought this would be a good place to post my Q's rather than start a new thread, hope thats OK. I'm more used to meeting trees with a chainsaw in my hands, so have very little experience of planting and establishing. All thoughts welcomed.

 

My situation is I've been offered the chance to use a few boggy field corners and margins for some experimental firewood planting. The landowners are life long friends (closer than family acutally) and are fairly enlightened when it comes to leaving little "wildlife areas". The soil is medium to good quality agricultural, however the climate has meant that in recent years certain areas of these fields are becoming increasingly un-workable due to waterlogging. The location is officially classified as an area of extreme exposure and no species can really achive the potential you would expect in the more sheltered areas of the UK. Each pocket will be no more than a couple of acres at most, currently rough grass and starting to reed over at the moment. I'm thinking about Alder which I can get a good locally grown supply of, but Sycamore and Ash also do well locally. The local supplier of Alder is also offering me imported Hazel.

 

Q's.

Is the small size of each patch going to effect growth & output?

How much / what site preparation would you recomend?

Is waterlogging going to be a problem?

What about leather jackets in areas not culivated for years?

Is it easy to propergate from close by trees? techniques?

Prefered planting basic techniques for planting, just spade in hand & drop it in or what?

 

There will be more Q's, but I'll stop here and see how you go:blushing:

I'd very much appreciate any info from old hands!

 

Thanks in anticipation.

 

Scamp.

[Saw-sick Steve]

Some brief points to consider;

What trees are growing locally - age, species, growth type?

How boggy is boggy? Standing water a.y.r or just winter?

Any potential pest probs - deer, voles, rabbits etc..?

An ''area of extreme exposure'' - in what way, altitude, coastal,frost?

Grant led scheme, or self contained?

 

Will try and reply to yer other points later!

[BigRedDog]

There are a few different options for starters, but most are pretty boggy all year round now, not under water, but pretty squelchy at this time of year, thats why they're available really.

Mainly Sycamore, Ash, Hawthorn, Tramman, some Beech, but its got to be pretty tough to survive. The main problem is wind more than temperature, its costal and pretty gusty. No pests to worry about really, no deer, badgers, maybe some rabits but not many. No grants, its just for fun:thumbup:

 

Spoke to a chap who's done some planting locally today, he said the Alder has done really well round abouts, and was literally just stuck in the ground and left to its own devices.

 

Thanks for your thoughts.

[AnimalMother]

Hi BRD,

 

Not sure where in the UK youre based, but Downy Birch should grow well in the conditions you listed. Windfirm, very water tolerant and very exposure hardy. It grows on the slopes of the Cairngorms, it should manage your hill!

[Stereo]

I coppice Alder and can heartilly recommend it. Cuts and splits easilly when green, dries quickly and grows at turbo speed. Also coppices very easily and is a tough tree to kill. Also, I believe Alder can promote Ash growth as it creates nitrogen in the soil? Maybe wrong on that but sure I read it somewhere.

 

Anyway, Alder would be a good baseline as it'll give you a return very quickly and will multiply once first cut. If the ground is wet or boggy, even better.