Help- working out calorific values

[luke_mclachlan]

Doesn't the efficiency of woodburner come into this too?

Ditto electric/gas boiler etc

 

Sounds like nerd to me.....

Refer him to websites and let him work it out.....

 

But keep him happy too he may work out best way of marketing logs ..... i don't think either tonnes or cubic metres is optimum

 

i won't take this the wrong way, all good constructive criticism

 

i'm a foreign currency trader by trade so i love working with numbers and FORWARD THINKING (!), plus i believe that the way biomass is currently being advertised to consumers is to the detriment of both them and you guys, the suppliers. I had a wood stove installed recently and i'm not using it half as much as i intended, simply because of the fact that suppliers around my way are saying their wood gives off "loads of heat". Now imagine if british gas did that .

 

I think that stacked-m3 is the best way to quote woodfuel when compared to loose-m3. What this forum has shown to me from day 1 is that some of you guys have very orderly loose loads, whilst elsewhere I have seen suppliers with very erratically piled logs. I know in canada, and no doubt other countries, the norm is stacked-m3. However, because wood is now being used more as a fuel, rather than some aesthetic centerpiece, suppliers should be considering quoting weight because (as you guys knows) it's weight, not volume, that dictates kWh.

 

Oh yes, and many suppliers down my way quote per trailer, per truck load, per dumpy bag, it's just a nightmare comparing prices! I love numbers but even I couldn't be bothered working things out, especially when british gas can supply my (cheap 4.5p kWh) fuel with the flick of a switch. I stopped using my wood burner after only 2 weeks! Isn't this worrying for you guys???

[luke_mclachlan]

He does sound like a nerd but nerds tend to earn good money and if you can justify your product you can have some of the nerd's money

 

well said, because A LOT of self-builders and regular home owners are becoming A LOT cleverer as to the relative costs of fuel and what kWh actually means. You guys are competing against pellets, ecological briquettes, solar energy, wind energy, GSHP's, as well as fossil fuel driven gas and electricity. If a customer asks the cost per kWh of your fuel and you say "what a nerd" you may be able to get away with this now, but not in a few years time

[daltontrees]

well said, because A LOT of self-builders and regular home owners are becoming A LOT cleverer as to the relative costs of fuel and what kWh actually means. You guys are competing against pellets, ecological briquettes, solar energy, wind energy, GSHP's, as well as fossil fuel driven gas and electricity. If a customer asks the cost per kWh of your fuel and you say "what a nerd" you may be able to get away with this now, but not in a few years time

 

And it mught be wrh bearing in mind that if this 'nerd' is left to research it himself, a Google search for 'calorific value' of wood will turn up this thread. How's the customer going to feel then?

 

I have to say that I find it disappointing that quite a few people in the industry aren't able to quote or even approximate for their customers something as basic as how much heat a fuel gives out. As has been said, if BG tried being vague, this Ofgas would shut them down.

 

So come on, it's not hard.

[daltontrees]

However, because wood is now being used more as a fuel, rather than some aesthetic centerpiece, suppliers should be considering quoting weight because (as you guys knows) it's weight, not volume, that dictates kWh.

 

Generally yes but not absolutely. Just like supermarkets selling meat byt eh kilo and filing it with water to get the weight up, logs are less and less vaulable as their water content increases. Encouraging logs to be priced pourely by weight encourages the selling of wet or partly seasoned logs.

 

Every bit of excess water requires some of the log's calorific energy to be used up in heating then vapourising the water into steam. The logs will still burn but won't give out teh same heat because a large part is going up the chimney as steam. Where no doubt it condenses on cooler parts of the building and creates a problem.

[luke_mclachlan]

Generally yes but not absolutely. Just like supermarkets selling meat byt eh kilo and filing it with water to get the weight up, logs are less and less vaulable as their water content increases. Encouraging logs to be priced pourely by weight encourages the selling of wet or partly seasoned logs.

 

Every bit of excess water requires some of the log's calorific energy to be used up in heating then vapourising the water into steam. The logs will still burn but won't give out teh same heat because a large part is going up the chimney as steam. Where no doubt it condenses on cooler parts of the building and creates a problem.

 

Yes sorry daltontrees, well pointed out, I should have mentioned that if weight is referenced then (a statistically significant/credible) moisture content has to be affixed !

Edited March 24, 2014 by luke_mclachlan
slight re-wording