minimum Kn for climbing

[Rod]

right come on someone must know if there is a minimum rating stated under puwer or loler.

i can remember being told about this during training, this might have changed or been scrapped since.

[treewizard]

mine start from 23kn, but it was never mentioned at college, thought that was 8 years ago but ive never heard anyone say anything bout it before.

[bob]

as rupe said 22KNi have been watching with interest that folk are not sure of this basic fact.

makes me wonder what other simple bits of info we are unsure of

and where the lack of knowledge could be addressed

[Rod]

perhaps there should be a new feature added to the forum containing only facts like the one in this thread. but not for people to post on. and perhaps in addition to that one along simmilar lines for asking for info not contained within the previous idea.

[Blakes 7]

Thank goodness someone knows the answer, 22Kn.

Shabaz your mate at work is only a moron because he got the value wrong, it is the same for all, 22Kn. I personally find it amusing that people judge others intelligence, yet they themselves are incorrect. (Pot and kettle)

To find the definitive answer in print look in "A Guide to yGood Climbing Practice", you are actually allowed to own a copy!

[Rod]

Thank goodness someone knows the answer, 22Kn.

Shabaz your mate at work is only a moron because he got the value wrong, it is the same for all, 22Kn. I personally find it amusing that people judge others intelligence, yet they themselves are incorrect. (Pot and kettle)

QUOTE]

 

you've not met him. lol

 

shabs was actualy nearer to right than the other lad because he said my crab with 22Kn rating would be good to climb on

 

the other lad (obviously jolous of my shiny new crab) said it wasn't rated high enough and told me i had wasted my money

 

the top and bottom of it is most people who posted on this dont seem to know

 

with the exeption of a few:001_smile:

[Ben]

I always though the minimum was 22kn

[Marc]

i'm one of his colleagues, and i was on the krabs side.

i'm sure it's double your weight, then ten times, that brings most non americans up to roughly the same rating (18-24Kn) but the other moron at work reckons that it's 24Kn of force irrespective.

 

Hey my comments were made with a bit of sarcastic humour, i don't think anyone is a moron, stupid little things like this make us think and hopefully learn. Even i was not 100% sure i've just always taken it for granted that if it has a CE mark or ANSI then its safe to climb on.

[Rupe]

There is no way that you start with the weight of climber and go ten times up from that. Whoever is arguing that should be shot!!

 

22kn mbs= 220 kgs swl. (one tenth) one climber is (easy maths) 100kgs so 22kn is plenty and also its plenty for rescue purposes as wel..[/quote

 

first you say i should be shot, then explain my reasoning?

 

The reasoning works if you start with the climber, and say

 

1 climber = 100 kgs +10 for clothing/kit/saw 110 kgs.

 

Then x2 for rescue purposes =220kg

 

then factor 10 for safety 220x10 = 2200kgs =22Kn.

 

That would be good logic!

[Chris Cowell]

What a great question to start a thread with!

 

I have never understood why our industry guidance says 22kN. To me there appears to be no complete logic to it. The two EN standards for connectors (EN362:2004 PPE Connectors; EN12275:1998 Mountaineering Connectors) tend to suggest that 20kN would be a sufficient major axis strength.

 

Harnesses certified to EN358 and EN813 are required to have static strengths of 15kN. Equally, terminations (knotted, spliced or stitched) in EN1891A rope have to have a static strength of 15kN. So surely 15kN would be OK for a karabiner that either directly or ultimately connects to a harness/rope?

 

However, EN566 (slings) requires 22kN partly because of the potential for strength loss through abrasion. My assumption is that our industry has adopted 22kN to keep things simple i.e. one number for all components. Because it is relatively easy to manufacture/source PPE with these high breaking loads, a high number is specified. I’m guessing that if it were more difficult to achieve 22kN, our industry would be happy to accept 15kN…..which is more than enough to ensure a sticky ending!

 

Generally speaking, a pre-configured strength of 22kN is sufficiently high to ensure that when the component (e.g. rope) is configured (e.g. knotted), the retained strength is still above the magic 15kN. Maybe industry guidance should state that all systems must have a minimum configured strength of 15kN?