Fungi id and possible prognosis please

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Thank you Tony,

 

I've had a quick read here - Trametes versicolor: The Turkey Tail (MushroomExpert.Com) (not sure whether it's a good reference or not) and it would appear that either way the fungi is there because the wood is dead. As this is at the base of a sizeable Beech within striking range of a public road and pathway (not visible, but in the background of the photos) possibly something more detailed than a practised ear with a wooden mallet may be in order. With so many mixed reports on the accuracy of Picus, what would you recommend please?

 

Regards,

 

Steve.

 

A picus would be o.k as long as plenty of sensors are used, Ive noticed with two few sensors it triangulates too much. (edges undefined) Its more important to know the state of the remaining roots, the functional ones, vascular pathways with cavities between are not in of themselves enough cause for felling. In my opinion.

 

the tree needs carefull evaluation, and dont take offence but seems to me your in need of some help in this area so get a consultant involved:thumbup1:

 

It might be that both fungi species discussed are present, on a closer look.

[treeseer]

A picus would be o.k as long as plenty of sensors are used, Ive noticed with two few sensors it triangulates too much. (edges undefined) Its more important to know the state of the remaining roots, the functional ones, vascular pathways with cavities between are not in of themselves enough cause for felling. In my opinion.

 

the tree needs carefull evaluation, and dont take offence but seems to me your in need of some help in this area so get a consultant involved:thumbup1:

 

It might be that both fungi species discussed are present, on a closer look.

 

+1 Impossible to assess with all that ivy in the way, isn't it?

 

 

Not enough info to inform treatment options.

[Jesse]

Ok, you have had good advice from a number of members , and I do like Tony and Treeseer and all who have the time to engage, Very short answer, and one that even if this tree was TPO'd a qualified TO would have no grounds to refuse , NO BRAINER , that tree has had it, I am a professional tree inspector , Lantra approved, and an M.Arbor.A , and hold all relevant insurances , given its target area, and its position within a tight group, ( Its loss would not be missed ) save your client some money and just take it down, thats free professional advice.

[Jesse]

In fact , I am now a little bit angry, had I inspected those trees and found that one in that condition my recommendations would just have been , section fell, its only my concern of offending Arbtalk members that influences my judgement to suggest a more detailed inspection, I hope my more recent confession does not upset anyone. I tell it as it is. Talk all day about the strengths of the remaining wood, Get qualified and insured , look at hundreds of trees on a regular basses, and you will soon realize you can not debate every poor condition tree that you come across.

[treeseer]

In fact , I am now a little bit angry, had I inspected those trees and found that one in that condition my recommendations would just have been , section fell, its only my concern of offending Arbtalk members that influences my judgement to suggest a more detailed inspection, I hope my more recent confession does not upset anyone. I tell it as it is. Talk all day about the strengths of the remaining wood, Get qualified and insured , look at hundreds of trees on a regular basses, and you will soon realize you can not debate every poor condition tree that you come across.

 

Several questions here: how do we know it is poorer condition than its neighbors, have they been examined? Too often I see trees quickly condemned but lo and behold its neighbors are truly fecked--then what?? Like that Garmin lady:..."Recalculating"...

 

removal is often the costliest option, because the value in the tree is lost, and the neighbors are higher risk due to higher exposure. Think about it.

 

Who will miss it or not? hard for an assessor to judge, and maybe outside assignment anyway. If one is given insufficient time to assess, perhaps the contract should be renegotiated so a fair job can be done.

 

the trunk is obscured from view but on the basis of a few feathery conks in one sinus (not a vascular pathway?) it seems a leap to section fell.

 

Once the facts are in, I might totally agree but the facts are out there, somewhere.

 

Obviously time should allow a 360 degree view of the trunk; that is Basic inspection. i tell clients, private or muni, to clear obstructions ahead of time to save money.

Edited June 12, 2013 by treeseer

[daltontrees]

YOu came on here looking for a fungus ID but understandably everyone is pitching in with prognosis and opinions of appropriate action.

 

There seems to be consensus that this is a deadwood fungus, probably C. versicolor (but there could be 2 dpecies on the go). Drying it out and exposing it to sunshine might slow it down but it won't go away. Moree importantly, the underlying (literally) problem won't go away either. It is feeding on deadwood that has been killed by something, could be another fungus, could be mechanical damage. The fact is, it is damaged and the tree's stability is compromised. I don't think there is any doubt that it will have to go, I have never seen a Beech recover from that much damage. That said, no-one can tell from the photos how extensive the damage is because of the ivy cover. Or how deep the decay/deadwood is. So, no-one can say yet whether the tree could be retained for a while or not.

 

You have been asked to comment and whether you realise it or not, whether you are quailified or not or have caveated your advice the owner will be relying on you to some extent and if you get it wrong he will quite rightly be aggrieved. There's at least 2 ways you can get it wrong, one is if it falls over and does damage/injury the other is that it is taken down needlessly or prematurely. I think you have to see this throuhg or back off and say you are backing off.

 

The cautious (and possibly with a vested interest in making money) tree surgeon will always suck air through the teeth and frighten the client into getting the tree down right away. The enlightened tree-saving arboriculturalist will go to any lengths and expense to save it for a while. In between might be the right answer. What I would do would be to try and quantify (broadly) the risk in the context of targets and extent of decay and prevailing wind etc. and get an idea of how the client feels about the tree and his tolerance of risk. This is a bit of a complex subject to get into here, but risk can be tolerated by the client if he makes an informed decision to do so.

 

In conclusion I don't think anyone knows enough to tell the cleint what to do or even to advise him of the options. But I wouldn't leave it at that, someone needs to look closer. That's either you, or someone more qualified or experienced that your client or you could refer it to or (and this is a decent option, I would suggest) you get the Council Tree Officer out to look with you. Since it is in a CA the TO would almost cerrtainly agree to a visit if a Notice is going to be submitted soon anyway.

 

Sorry to disagree with other posters. I am hopefully just refining the general thrust of others' advice and making it easier for you to give more meaningful advice.

[Arbtech Tree Services]

A big thankyou to all contributors and a quick note to explain my silence.

 

Yesterday at about 11am there was a fault with the BT landline at an exchange whereby the most of the village has lost the internet side of their line. This was supposed to be fixed by 8am this morning but obviously not.

 

You don't realise how much you use the internet till you lose it!

 

A friend has very kindly plugged my computer temporarily into his mobile so i can post this and sort some very important matters elsewhere. It could be up to 48hrs before getting back online.

 

So again thanks to everyone and i'll hopefully be back with more very soon.

 

Kind regards,

 

Steve.

[Jesse]

YOu came on here looking for a fungus ID but understandably everyone is pitching in with prognosis and opinions of appropriate action.

 

There seems to be consensus that this is a deadwood fungus, probably C. versicolor (but there could be 2 dpecies on the go). Drying it out and exposing it to sunshine might slow it down but it won't go away. Moree importantly, the underlying (literally) problem won't go away either. It is feeding on deadwood that has been killed by something, could be another fungus, could be mechanical damage. The fact is, it is damaged and the tree's stability is compromised. I don't think there is any doubt that it will have to go, I have never seen a Beech recover from that much damage. That said, no-one can tell from the photos how extensive the damage is because of the ivy cover. Or how deep the decay/deadwood is. So, no-one can say yet whether the tree could be retained for a while or not.

 

You have been asked to comment and whether you realise it or not, whether you are quailified or not or have caveated your advice the owner will be relying on you to some extent and if you get it wrong he will quite rightly be aggrieved. There's at least 2 ways you can get it wrong, one is if it falls over and does damage/injury the other is that it is taken down needlessly or prematurely. I think you have to see this throuhg or back off and say you are backing off.

 

The cautious (and possibly with a vested interest in making money) tree surgeon will always suck air through the teeth and frighten the client into getting the tree down right away. The enlightened tree-saving arboriculturalist will go to any lengths and expense to save it for a while. In between might be the right answer. What I would do would be to try and quantify (broadly) the risk in the context of targets and extent of decay and prevailing wind etc. and get an idea of how the client feels about the tree and his tolerance of risk. This is a bit of a complex subject to get into here, but risk can be tolerated by the client if he makes an informed decision to do so.

 

In conclusion I don't think anyone knows enough to tell the cleint what to do or even to advise him of the options. But I wouldn't leave it at that, someone needs to look closer. That's either you, or someone more qualified or experienced that your client or you could refer it to or (and this is a decent option, I would suggest) you get the Council Tree Officer out to look with you. Since it is in a CA the TO would almost cerrtainly agree to a visit if a Notice is going to be submitted soon anyway.

 

Sorry to disagree with other posters. I am hopefully just refining the general thrust of others' advice and making it easier for you to give more meaningful advice.

Well said, I like that, I just tend to be a little more black and white, having spent a lot of years physically working on trees it does ,I think, provide me with a better understanding of a tree when inspecting it now, having been brought in to section fell lots of trees over the years I know first hand what can be found at the base of a tree when you take that last slice, and on many occasions I have said ' Christ how was that ever still standing' it is surprising how little will actually hold a tree up especially within a group, they can be the ones which fail in the most spectacular way.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

In fact , I am now a little bit angry, had I inspected those trees and found that one in that condition my recommendations would just have been , section fell, its only my concern of offending Arbtalk members that influences my judgement to suggest a more detailed inspection, I hope my more recent confession does not upset anyone. I tell it as it is. Talk all day about the strengths of the remaining wood, Get qualified and insured , look at hundreds of trees on a regular basses, and you will soon realize you can not debate every poor condition tree that you come across.

 

 

Opinions will always vary, dont fret about having one that does not match somone elses, nor upsetting senior members who wont get upset.

 

as a qualified assessor you should know that well enough, opinions often vary widely.

 

But it is VERY easy to drop the fell option, the real skills are in knowing when that is overkill

[daltontrees]

Well said, I like that, I just tend to be a little more black and white, having spent a lot of years physically working on trees it does ,I think, provide me with a better understanding of a tree when inspecting it now, having been brought in to section fell lots of trees over the years I know first hand what can be found at the base of a tree when you take that last slice, and on many occasions I have said ' Christ how was that ever still standing' it is surprising how little will actually hold a tree up especially within a group, they can be the ones which fail in the most spectacular way.

 

Like you, I have learnt the most from seeing trees that are to be taken down and then taken them down including that last slice. 'Christ. was I up that (and snatching 1/2 tonne branches)?' is more how I would state it. The post mortem approach was what allowed Alex Shigo to re-invent arboriculture.

 

If you can ever answer the question 'How was that ever still standing?' you probably have a better understanding of biomechanics than Shigo, Mattheck, Broeler and Schwartz put together.