Register of Tree Work Operatives

[Pommie]

My understanding of this is it will be launched at the new entrants into Arb, not us old codgers. I gave a grilling to one of the panel who gave a talk to our committee about this scheme. He answered me with " If we want our industry to get government funding/recognition in the future we as an industry HAVE to develop this. Failure to do so is not an option."

 

I have seen many changes in the last 25 years most good some not so. But change is inevitable. If we refuse to support the principle behind the work these guys are doing we risk jeopardising the forward momentum WE have made as an industry in the recent past.

 

Agreed tree work will continue and some will be good and some will be down right awful, but will we be recognised as the highly skilled and dedicated professionals we are ??

 

AA, ISA, ICF in or out it doesn't matter.

[Andy Clark]

My apologies......

 

I had planned to be at tomorrows presentation, however unfortunately work has taken precedent and I am now unable to attend.

 

Can I please ask that those concerned and/or anyone else that does attend, give a full debrief on here afterwards.

 

Many thanks.

 

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

[jaime bray]

My apologies......

 

I had planned to be at tomorrows presentation, however unfortunately work has taken precedent and I am now unable to attend.

 

Can I please ask that those concerned and/or anyone else that does attend, give a full debrief on here afterwards.

 

Many thanks.

 

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

 

Consider it done young noble knight, I shall attend and report back with the upmost scepticism, therefore enabling all to have a slightly more partial update of R2.

Although i am chairing the meeting I hasten to add..

Thanks for wanting to attend and view the scheme/system.

 

Regards,

 

Jaime

Edited January 29, 2013 by jaime bray

[Andy Clark]

Consider it done young noble knight, I shall attend and report back with the upmost scepticism, therefore enabling all to have a slightly more partial update of R2.

Although i am chairing the meeting I hasten to add..

Thanks for wanting to attend and view the scheme/system.

 

Regards,

 

Jaime

 

 

?????

 

I'm sorry Jaime, have we met?

 

I don't recall that we have, so am therefore left struggling to comprehend the reasoning/rationale behind the content and context of your reply.

 

Can I be rest assured that that wasn't the formal standpoint from the Chair of the presentation, and therefore was not formally representative of the standpoint of the scheme?

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

Edited January 29, 2013 by Andy Clark

[jaime bray]

?????

 

I'm sorry Jaime, have we met?

 

I don't recall that we have, so am therefore left struggling to comprehend the reasoning/rationale behind the content and context of your reply.

 

Can I be rest assured that that wasn't the formal standpoint from the Chair of the presentation, and therefore was not formally representative of the standpoint of the scheme?

 

 

 

 

 

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

 

Andy,

 

No we have not met.

 

Reference the content of the post I am unsure as to what you refer to?

 

If young noble knight then I apologise if that is ageist.

If regarding the scepticism then it was to try and assure that my report back would not be written with glitter and stars attached bedazzling the arbtalk audience with a biased view of the R2 scheme.

 

The comment was made as a reply to a message in a public chat forum about the topic, and was not representative of the Chairs view, the AAs view, ISAs view, Landex view, Bartletts View, Glendales view nor Lantras view, nor that of any other organisation that decides to support or adopt the scheme over the forth coming months and years.

 

Apologies for any upset that may have been caused through the lack of clarity on said post.

 

Kind regards,

 

Jaime

[jaime bray]

My understanding of this is it will be launched at the new entrants into Arb, not us old codgers. I gave a grilling to one of the panel who gave a talk to our committee about this scheme. He answered me with " If we want our industry to get government funding/recognition in the future we as an industry HAVE to develop this. Failure to do so is not an option."

 

I have seen many changes in the last 25 years most good some not so. But change is inevitable. If we refuse to support the principle behind the work these guys are doing we risk jeopardising the forward momentum WE have made as an industry in the recent past.

 

Agreed tree work will continue and some will be good and some will be down right awful, but will we be recognised as the highly skilled and dedicated professionals we are ??

 

AA, ISA, ICF in or out it doesn't matter.

 

Thanks for the support pommie.

[jaime bray]

Consider it done young noble knight, I shall attend and report back with the upmost scepticism, therefore enabling all to have a slightly more partial update of R2.

Although i am chairing the meeting I hasten to add..

Thanks for wanting to attend and view the scheme/system.

 

Regards,

 

Jaime

 

Oops, I see what you mean, that should have been impartial. not partial view. Apologies on that one.

[Paul Jenks]

My understanding of this is it will be launched at the new entrants into Arb, not us old codgers. I gave a grilling to one of the panel who gave a talk to our committee about this scheme. He answered me with " If we want our industry to get government funding/recognition in the future we as an industry HAVE to develop this. Failure to do so is not an option."

 

I have seen many changes in the last 25 years most good some not so. But change is inevitable. If we refuse to support the principle behind the work these guys are doing we risk jeopardising the forward momentum WE have made as an industry in the recent past.

 

Agreed tree work will continue and some will be good and some will be down right awful, but will we be recognised as the highly skilled and dedicated professionals we are ??

 

AA, ISA, ICF in or out it doesn't matter.

 

 

Summarised very well.

 

We, as an industry, need to be pushing change ahead of the curve. We should have a system that demonstrates our professionalism and competencies. Ultimately, there may be legislation that restricts work on trees to those who are on the register in the way Corgi/Gas Safe does.

[jaime bray]

Summarised very well.

 

We, as an industry, need to be pushing change ahead of the curve. We should have a system that demonstrates our professionalism and competencies. Ultimately, there may be legislation that restricts work on trees to those who are on the register in the way Corgi/Gas Safe does.

 

That would certainly be a step in the right direction in my personal opinion.

[Yorkshireman]

some very interesting comments

 

however in my opinion drawing parity between Arb & the Petro chemicals industry is a TOTAL misunderstanding of the issues faced by the grass root companies involved within the amenity / urban Arboriculture sectors.

I haven’t yet seen a petrochemical refinery next to those horses tied at the side of the road with the caravans.

Though the Utility Arb’ sector could perhaps be drawn into industrial comparisons.

 

Comments alluding too the Rogue traders

As I understand these issues are primarily from those Persons who are happy to fly below the radar , i.e. the bodge it & scarper brigade,

 

Those persons are from a diverse cross section of society’s social groups...........

 

These are practioneers who don’t care about rules or the customer anyway.

 

I know of a chap who has traded for years using a chainsaw to carryout aspects of his business & has over the years reduced the length of several fingers thanks to his lack of ability using a chainsaw ,,

This doesnt stop him from competing for clients to my knowledge the HSe have never knocked on his door. Nor has it stopped customers giving his company work.

 

These Traders are in my opinion far from the level of those hard working business people who attempt to do the right thing and make every effort to build and retain their good name and reputation with their client base,

 

 

As we all know we have a multi tiered industry much of which is in practise totally unregulated or in any way policed. until its too late.

 

by stopping the rogue element we do not have a level playing field that could be said for an industry such as the Petro chemical giants .

 

Perhaps as a means to stop this re occurring tim & time again programmes could educate the Home / Land owner that they by law hold liability / responsibility to the safety of those persons they engage and implications of their actions toward property & the person or those person who may come into contact or be influenced by those works

 

is it enough to just highlight poorly executed ,expensive or dangerous works.. ?

 

 

re

 

" If we want our industry to get government funding / recognition in the future we as an industry HAVE to develop this. Failure to do so is not an option."

 

WHO Exactly is WE ??? and in what way would these funds be forth coming ?

 

So who is going to police these levels of professionalism .. ?

 

How will they ensure that they will have sufficient resources and funds to police this ?

 

Are we expecting the insurance industry to do so on our behalf ?

 

their involvement wont resolve the issue of the under radar brigade as most of these are not trained let alone insured !

 

So perhaps the machinery / ppe suppliers who service the sector may enter into a voluntarily control re the sale of equipment to those who are deemed not professional ..?

 

Not Likely ! as they will then have issue staying afloat..

+ the private person has a right to buy equipment for own use , or internet sales form Ebay and overseas sellers all of which are routes for the rougues or none professionals to get their hands on industry grade Kit etc.

 

 

Will the policing body enforce action on clients who employ persons who are not within the scheme ?

 

Given the current economic climate the client often goes for the cheapest quote ..

Not the best,, the cheapest !!

 

if so How ?

 

as it will be expensive to fund the time & effort expended to police such a scheme.

 

this seems unlikely. as The Hse don’t have enough resources now !

 

Will the funds from individual contributions to the scheme be sufficient to fund the implementation , application and policing ?

 

If as is stated previously this scheme is intended for those NEW entrants how long will it take to build funds & how would anyone know who is newbie or an old codger ?

 

.. for example an 18/ 19 year old apprentice currently in the industry is likely to be in this line of work for 20 -25 years and that person wont contribute throughout their career so where’s the money coming from ??? There are an abundance of willing entrants to the industry ,with a finite requirement for people on the ground.

 

Are ‘We the industry’ expecting government to fund this ?

 

Given the level of cut backs to front line Military & Police numbers, ministerial budgets, Local government budgets and the like, I doubt there will be little appetite for funding this scheme, but I maybe wrong

 

Mention was made relevant to growing companies that have grown beyond a man a van & a bod to feed the chipper and whose owner doesn’t now have time to engage on Arbtalk..

These companies also hold a massive cost burden, due to infrastructure costs that are required in achieving such advancements, which leads to their pricing structure increasing to cover such items as capital expenditure , rent rates , wages , in ward investments to training, accreditation, equipment consumables, fixed costs- insurance, fuel and other associated costs + a modicum towards making a profit These companies are in the main also required to also add Vat now 20% on top of their infrastructure.

All of which can lead to a price requirement that is not accepted by Businesses , organisation’s and individuals who seek THE MOST COMPETITIVE QUOTE from which there is not a lot left ... so where will another burden lead ?

 

More mechanisation to increase productivity ! = less staff = less members of the scheme

 

or perhaps Exactly to the same result as we have now , a multi layered industry ,

 

excellence is an aspiration which is only acheiveable for those who can afford it..

which can only be afforded if ther income allows this which requires support by their clients .......

So who are these clients that can afford it Petro chemicals sector ? but they dont have many trees. Utilities ?

 

And then we have left over the rest of the industry who have to do their level best to stay in the industry and business they love whilst in competition with operators who are under the radar, who it strikes me are much more profitable than those who comply with a raft of rules regulations & aspirations to achieve more but are restrained due to their income streams.

 

We have within the ranks of our industry some excellent and dedicated practitioners, who irrespective of their age or their prowess ability or academic qualifications

simply want do a good job safely,

 

It would give me great pleasure to see our industry rise in the nations eye, because of reasons above & more besides I doubt this will dramatically alter .. because cash is king and budgets are being squeezed until 2018 and whilst the media strive to talk down the economic recovery there will be desire for the client to take the cheapest option & there in lies the issue..

 

I do not believe this is an issue that industry that can change solely

without the support of the client base .. and without that fundamental change I see a multi tier future for many many years ahead.

 

Those who dont care / those who care but cant afford to comply & those lucky enough to have a chioce..

 

Some of the most successfully businesses are not driven by academics as this is a practical industry, we can all talk about the influences risk hazards & health matters and how all these affect the built environment we have constructed .. the simple fact remains without the operatives then this industry is stuffed

many of the best operators it has been my pleasure to see & work with are far from academic many of these people struggle with paperwork let alone study for qualifications many other don’t see the need as they've been at the game too long and/or can’t achieve these qualifications due to learning ability issues. ie dyslexia

 

It would therefore in my opinion be totally wrong of the industry to put an academic Glass ceiling above these peoples heads.

 

There are many dyslexics & none academics in Arboriculture that’s why they are here

As it is an outdoor career that keeps them physically fit & offers a mental challenge like no other can.

 

please remember these people are Professionals too….

 

best regards Iain

Edited January 30, 2013 by Yorkshireman