Register of Tree Work Operatives

[Yorkshireman]

of interest

 

this is an HSE endorsed event ,

for those seeking to engage arboricultural contractors.

 

Held at Stoneleigh.

 

with an interesting speaker list

Invite to Arboricultural SHADs.pdf

Arb SHAD Programme.pdf

Edited January 30, 2013 by Yorkshireman

[Ian Haynes]

Hi Iain,

 

I support the Register of Tree Work Operatives scheme and the whole point of the scheme is to allow our industry to become more professional in the eyes of the people/ industry etc we provide our services too.

 

Its not going to remove the rouge element of the industry and its not going to be a silver bullet to fix all our problems.

 

However, It will provide arboricultural operatives, tree care buinesses and clients a professional register to record and demonstrate skills, experience and training.

 

I have used the innovative online tool as its very easy to use so there should be no concerns from dyslexics & none academics in Arboriculture.

 

I'll read through your thread and will try and answer your specific question when I get some time.

 

Thanks,

 

Ian

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

some very interesting comments

 

Some of the most successfully businesses are not driven by academics as this is a practical industry, we can all talk about the influences risk hazards & health matters and how all these affect the built environment we have constructed .. the simple fact remains without the operatives then this industry is stuffed

many of the best operators it has been my pleasure to see & work with are far from academic many of these people struggle with paperwork let alone study for qualifications many other don’t see the need as they've been at the game too long and/or can’t achieve these qualifications due to learning ability issues. ie dyslexia

 

It would therefore in my opinion be totally wrong of the industry to put an academic Glass ceiling above these peoples heads.

 

There are many dyslexics & none academics in Arboriculture that’s why they are here

As it is an outdoor career that keeps them physically fit & offers a mental challenge like no other can.

 

please remember these people are Professionals too….

 

best regards Iain

 

Hi Iain,

 

Firstly I 'take my hat off to you' for your time, commitment and passion within this post and I wholly agree with your sentiments...and indeed your sense of realism. Thank you and well done. (apologies here, I was looking for the "hands clapping" smilie but unsuccesfully.)

 

However the 'R2' program seeks to do quite the opposite of placing a glass ceiling over peoples heads...indeed it seeks to place a stage underneath them to elevate them to a position of recognition (BAD analogy compared with yours ) based on the exact strengths you mention, i.e. skills, expereince and abilities. Yes of course it will include training evdience and NPTCs etc., and indeed any formal qualifications at whatever level that may be held, but fundamentally it is about recognising their 'professionalism', recording this, and those essential 'core skills' that make people employable...at all levels and beit aerially or on the gorund.

 

I sincerely hope this response goes someway to clarifying 'R2' and reassuring everyone it is a good thing for the industry and everyone within.

 

Thank you.

 

Cheers..

Paul

 

PS In terms of 'policing' the thing, I believe it is anticipated it will, in effect' 'self-police' by employers / managers / supervisors etc., albeit with some verification role probably by Lantra as the landbased industries sector skills council. Also 'members' will pay a fee, but the proposal, I believe, is a nominal amount (circa £25 but don't quote me) to manage and develop the system. Sorry I can't give definites here, so maybe I should just..."hushhh", but I'm not directly involved as it is not an Arb Assoc. proposal.

Edited January 30, 2013 by AA Teccie (Paul)

[AA Teccie (Paul)]

of interest

 

this is an HSE endorsed event ,

for those seeking to engage arboricultural contractors.

 

Held at Stoneleigh.

 

with an interesting speaker list

 

Iain, thanks again for this which isn't only HSE 'endorsed' but it's actually a HSE event (one of many they've run over the years.)

 

As you say it is aimed at those clients / 'service buyers', mainly commercial / LAs etc. rather than domestic, engaging arb contractors and HSE point out quite clearly their responsibilities in engaging competent contractors and dis-charging their duties.

 

All-in-all a very good event always well received.

 

Cheers..

Paul

[Yorkshireman]

Hi Paul

 

all received , thanks for your input thoughts and comments no doubt of use to those who will be in the steering group

 

a diverse cross section of opinion will no doubt assist in ironing out issues prior to them arising

Iain

[Yorkshireman]

Hello Ian

 

this is not my thread

 

As I know there are many levels of operator and business alike out in the real world

 

I merely add my thoughts, to which I of course welcome your response .

 

I can't say I support or oppose this, in principle any positive enhancement to the credibility of the industry is a good thing

 

 

with one caveat it should not exclude, those who perhaps don’t want too join in, most importantly have the ability or funds to participate.. training & education costs can be a high hill to climb.

 

we all set business and personal goals, however as a realist I know that for many out there the bank balance is the ultimate leveler.

 

not the aspiration to progress, some employers can and do pay for staff cpd to encourage advancement that others employers simply wont or perhaps through finance can't.

 

I know of many disgruntled employers who have paid for staff training [ which they are obliged to do ]

only for that staff member to resign and leave the business

which leaves the business not only meet their skills short fall in the short term, but the financial implication of filling that funding & the need perhaps for the next employee also

 

businesses invest in people in order that they might mutually benefit from increased safety & productivity

 

In Law employers cannot stop monies to cover these eventualities.. even a signed waiver is dubious should it be taken to tribunal

 

Its a sad truth that training is a burden that some employers wont bear.. despite the need too.

 

Even government funded bodies dont do all that they might as with the recent reccession many budgets for training were one of the first casualties for downsizing.

That is equally if not more so reflected in the commercial world where a business finds it harder to stay trading then perhaps the worse the impact in this area.

 

 

Most employers I speak to want to provide a safe a working place and provide their teams with all the good things to work with, having recieved right and proper training ,,.

 

Sadly its the elephant in the room It is a fact that micro & small businesses dont have the money to play with that larger and perhaps national companies have. so when it comes down to the wire corners get cut to save jobs which saves families from hardship.

 

So what could be done ? perhaps an alteration to the legislation re training costs for those leaving within a given period would help Mid / large players

but for the micro & small this I feel should in some way be enhanced further to more widely promote those initiatives that already exist.

 

there are some schemes out there that will give Level 2 & 3 funding but these are not widely explained or promoted

Edited January 30, 2013 by Yorkshireman

[Andy Clark]

Came across some interesting background reading today.........

 

http://www.trees.org.uk/aa/news/Professional-Skills-Framework-update-119.html

 

And ......

 

http://www.hse.gov.uk/treework/hse-communicating.htm. (With specific reference to the first of the bullet points within the sub heading "The role of AFAG")

 

Also, references to the scheme within the attachments.

 

 

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

tapaupload1.pdf

tapaupload0.pdf

[Le Sanglier]

I was asked as an independant contractor to assist and give opinions on the issue of the Professional Standards Framework initiative for arboriculture.

 

Many other industries have development frameworks in place, assisting industry persons with their career development, enhancement and opportuninties.

 

Arboriculture has a mixed bag, depending on the type of work you do and what experience you have.

 

One thing that is a common occurance is that employers will employ someone that claims to be gods gift to arb, sometimes the right person for the job loses out because they didnt sell themselves well or couldnt show their actual experience and the other person has 'better; paper work.

 

Another aspect of the industry, is the loss of skills as people drop out the top as they have nowhere to go when their body has had enough of climbing, resulting in a complete loss of skills to the company and the industry, and the person starting a new career in a different industry.

 

The Register of Tree Work Operatives; or R2 as it has been branded, will look to put in place a register for industry operatives, that through the stringent process of evidential accounting of experiential learning and skill assessment, and with the recognition of training and qualification acquisitions all combined together, enabling arborists to achieve a grade that will recognise their skills, experience, training and qualifications.

 

There will be an endorsement process that all registraints will have to go through and this will be verified.

 

The intention is to assist in the professionalisation of arboriculture and assist people recognising and achieving their full potential and companies in recruitment.

 

It will be constructed in a way that will recognise the value and benefit of all industry persons, from student learners/apprentices, right through to people that have been on the ropes for 25 years, have vast amounts of experience but little in the form of educational qualifications, yet contribute significantly to the successful development of the industry as they have forgotten more than some will ever know about practical arboriculture.

 

The scheme is being supported by pan industry, with a representative from many sectors. Currently on the steering group is a rep from; ISA, AA, Landex, Bartletts, Glendale, Lantra, A.M.Lane safety consultants and myself; Jaime Bray (Treetop Arboriculture), other industry sectors are being consulted with at varying times, e.g. City and Guilds, insurance companies, however, further work is needed to bring to fruition the scheme.

 

It has been decided by the steering group that an awareness event and sponsor event is put on. This event will brief attendees on the scheme, show the software for the scheme in working situations and also hopefully attract donations from industry figures to bring the scheme forward. Please see the attached PDF for the invitation to the event, there will be a variety of sponsorship packages available, Although it is not going to break the bank I have opened the account with a donation of £100. I am a one man band but i do believe that the industry, with the appropriate support, can benefit from this pan initiative.

 

There are far to many details to continue dribbling on about right now, but please take time to read through the attachment and feel free to show your interest and follow the instructions on the invitation.

 

Opinions welcomed. Although i apologise if i can not answer every question, some of the technical aspects go way beyond my remit.

 

Thanks for reading and thanks for any opinions and support.

 

Ok, to address the first point surely most employers would give a climber a couple of days trial to see if they are up to it or indeed "fit" the way that particular way that firm works. No piece of paper can guarantee that.

Secondly the loss of experience as blokes knock on a bit, well so what?

It's no that complex a job just dismantling and trimming trees; Techniques are not going to be lost in the mists of antiquity. If a bloke leaves that makes space for all the young'uns who are on here looking for work.

I think you are trying to solve a problem that does not exist.

Another thing that I cannot understand is this desire for recognition so "the industry" can gain government funding. What on earth for?

[Andy Clark]

Came across some interesting background reading today.........

 

Professional Skills Framework - update - - Arboricultural Association

 

And ......

 

How HSE communicates with the tree industry. (With specific reference to the first of the bullet points within the sub heading "The role of AFAG")

 

Also, references to the scheme within the attachments.

 

 

Sent from my BlackBerry 9700 using Tapatalk

 

And have also found the report that started it all.....

 

http://www.lantra.co.uk/Downloads/Research/Research-reports/Trees-Timber-Industry-in-Great-Britain-Size,-Structure-Skills.aspx

 

Now THAT is something worth reading!

[jaime bray]

We all see things differently, its what makes the world go round.

 

Thanks for the comments whether good or bad they all get read by the steering group.

 

Cheers

 

Jaime