Using silky... Unskilled labour?

[Ty Korrigan]

Ah,

We sent a 2 man team to do 3 days pruning work for a client back in July.

I was absent at the time, off getting married but when I returned to work there was an email waiting for me, not unkind but it said amongst other things...

"perhaps if we used chainsaws we would work faster"

 

It seems the last Arb, a French outfit, used top handles, even on the ground and she was impressed by their speed and use.

We are due back in a week or so and I will endevour to explain about safety and the French way of ignoring it...

Anyway, the job has run over by a day and the client is convinced it is the use of our silkies that caused this rather than her 'just can you' and micro management 'just a bit more please'...

Ty

[David Goss]

I regard early formative pruning as a very skilled pastime and in my opinion it should only ever be done with a hand-saw. Aren't we lucky now with the advent of such superb pruning saws, topped of course by Silky and their range.

The worst thing you can do to a young tree is to attempt to prune it with a chain-saw. In my opinion this is butchery! You have to carefully cut where the coronet finishes and this will allow for a clean heal in the future. By undercutting the branches in this way the scar is then minimal. Using a chain-saw certainly does not speed up the process and this method does not make for clean cutting either. There is an argument to have a chain-saw nearby and available for the bigger branches but not as the main tool. Hand pruning is also the most pleasurable past-time as there is no noise, no environmental damage and you are working much closer to the young trees so can be really accurate with your actions. If looked at in this way who is going to make the better of the work?

 

Whoever is advocating chain-saw use and the lack if skill needed in hand-pruning really should not be in charge of overseeing the attention of valuable young stock. My advice would be to go over this persons head to the woodland owner or agent, if there is such a person and strongly state your case.

Good luck.

codlasher

 

My sentiments exactly:thumbup:

 

 

Ah,

We sent a 2 man team to do 3 days pruning work for a client back in July.

I was absent at the time, off getting married but when I returned to work there was an email waiting for me, not unkind but it said amongst other things...

"perhaps if we used chainsaws we would work faster"

 

It seems the last Arb, a French outfit, used top handles, even on the ground and she was impressed by their speed and use.

We are due back in a week or so and I will endevour to explain about safety and the French way of ignoring it...

Anyway, the job has run over by a day and the client is convinced it is the use of our silkies that caused this rather than her 'just can you' and micro management 'just a bit more please'...

Ty

 

I think that for the smaller branches, using a silky is in fact quicker anyway. There is no stopping to refill for one thing and mostly all the branches can be taken off with one swipe and placement of the saw is quicker as it is much lighter and easier to control.

Great feedback so far guys thanks and keep them coming:thumbup1:

[codlasher]

When I was in training, too long ago to even think about, there wasn't even such a thing as a 'small saw' and us lads (two of us) certainly would never have been allowed near such a machine aged 15. We did all the snedding, behind the 'feller' with an axe and all cutting with a 'bushman' saw (bow saw). We also had horrible blunt hand saws to prune the young Beech & Oak. These worked, like all British saws, on the push method, so were heavy, not easy to use and clogged up very quickly.

This is the main reason I am such a supporter of these lovely pieces, each carefully tailored for its specific job with a plethora of blades and tooth settings. What more does a person need to do finer work. I even have a selection in my 'carpentry box' for when I do wood-work!

I would still argue that by the time the chain-saw operator had dressed, filled the saw and checked the teeth for utmost sharpness, started the thing and actually got to work, a hand saw operator will be at least four young trees ahead. I would think too he would stay ahead all day too, also not have arm and shoulder ache.

There is still a place for the motor manual operator in the team, as I expressed earlier, with felling and larger branch cutting. By careful observation and teamwork the job could probably be enhanced and therefor speeded up, but keep the chain-saw away from pruning!

Codlasher.

Edited November 29, 2012 by codlasher

[David Goss]

When I was in training, too long ago to even think about, there wasn't even such a thing as a 'small saw' and us lads (two of us) certainly would never have been allowed near such a machine aged 15. We did all the snedding, behind the 'feller' with an axe and all cutting with a 'bushman' saw (bow saw). We also had horrible blunt hand saws to prune the young Beech & Oak. These worked, like all British saws, on the push method, so were heavy, not easy to use and clogged up very quickly.

This is the main reason I am such a supporter of these lovely pieces, each carefully tailored for its specific job with a plethora of blades and tooth settings. What more does a person need to do finer work. I even have a selection in my 'carpentry box' for when I do wood-work!

I would still argue that by the time the chain-saw operator had dressed, filled the saw and checked the teeth for utmost sharpness, started the thing and actually got to work, a hand saw operator will be at least four young trees ahead. I would think too he would stay ahead all day too, also not have arm and shoulder ache.

There is still a place for the motor manual operator in the team, as I expressed earlier, with felling and larger branch cutting. By careful observation and teamwork the job could probably be enhanced and therefor speeded up, but keep the chain-saw away from pruning!

Codlasher.

 

Have you been reading my mind?

[JamesNI]

I agree with codlasher wholeheartedly. Surely your getting paid for the skill in deciding which trees and branches to cut. How you do it is irrelevant. The arguements for silky or loppers are multiple, safer, neater wounds, less environmental impact etc etc. You should direct said employer in the direction of this thread!

[David Goss]

I agree with codlasher wholeheartedly. Surely your getting paid for the skill in deciding which trees and branches to cut. How you do it is irrelevant. The arguements for silky or loppers are multiple, safer, neater wounds, less environmental impact etc etc. You should direct said employer in the direction of this thread!

 

i am in complete agreement also. The point of the thread was to get as many different arguments as possible but i suspect i was right all along:001_smile:

The reason for not using the silky and having to use the chainsaw were legal reasons because we dont have the gangers licence. To me this sounded completely insane that depending on which tool we used made the job skilled or unskilled. Can anyone confirm that this is in fact the case or is it just a case of the man in charge reading too much into it and getting the wrong end of the stick???

 

The most bizarre thing about all this is the fact that it is happening at all. Whatever happened to the world?

[JamesNI]

If it was me I would have had a saw sitting running on half throttle all day, and done the work with silkys! A professional knows the right tool to use, surely you are still a skilled arb with a handsaw!

[David Goss]

We still used the silky saws anyway, mainly because we were so pissed off that it turned into a kind of rebellion haha but we knew it was the best way to do the job anyway and we were not having some pen pusher telling us how to do our jobs. Thing is if we were caught then what could happen? apart from me downing tools and going home in a rage...

[MATTMOSS]

I regard early formative pruning as a very skilled pastime and in my opinion it should only ever be done with a hand-saw. Aren't we lucky now with the advent of such superb pruning saws, topped of course by Silky and their range.

The worst thing you can do to a young tree is to attempt to prune it with a chain-saw. In my opinion this is butchery! You have to carefully cut where the coronet finishes and this will allow for a clean heal in the future. By undercutting the branches in this way the scar is then minimal. Using a chain-saw certainly does not speed up the process and this method does not make for clean cutting either. There is an argument to have a chain-saw nearby and available for the bigger branches but not as the main tool. Hand pruning is also the most pleasurable past-time as there is no noise, no environmental damage and you are working much closer to the young trees so can be really accurate with your actions. If looked at in this way who is going to make the better of the work?

 

 

Whoever is advocating chain-saw use and the lack if skill needed in hand-pruning really should not be in charge of overseeing the attention of valuable young stock. My advice would be to go over this persons head to the woodland owner or agent, if there is such a person and strongly state your case.

Good luck.

codlasher

 

 

The perfect response couldnt say it better myself. Some people havent got the sense they were born with.

He is obviously oveerlooking the fact that the skill is in making the cuts just as much as what with.

Obviously the is an element of skill and competence needed to use a chainsaw but for pruning young trees its not the right tool fo the job.

You could argue for more money and try a more skilled way of pruning them ...like with surface to air missiles

[Andy Collins]

I thought the gang master licensing system had been removed from the forestry sector anyway now? Can't swear by that, but recall reading it someplace a while back. If anyone can verify this it may be useful.