Spiderjack setup

[Sirnick2]

Have a look at his srt traverse thread, what more do you want lol, my argument isn't Ddrt vs SRT but more that i have found a new system and i'll never go back to Ddrt but to be come comfortable and semi proficient with SRT it has taken a fair while and ALOT of trial and error lol

[kevin bingham]

If yall ddrt climbers stop putting the brakes on srt in the comps. I think there is some fear? I dont see comps being won ddrt once srt is given a shot. Work climbs ARE faster and masters climbs are simpler. Just the way it is. I do love talkingshit.

[kevin bingham]

All these comps going on right now without srt dont mean a danged thing.

[joe into trees]

All these comps going on right now without srt dont mean a danged thing.

 

Seriously Kevin?

 

To be honest, I feel a bit like someone with a magic lamp. All I've gotta do is say the slightest disparaging thing about SRWP, no matter how careful I am to point out that it's just my opinion, and KAPOW! Kevin Bingham appears. Kevin, I don't think I've mentioned SRWP anywhere, on any forum, without you replying within three or four posts. Hats off to your dedication!

 

Yes, I know, I haven't spent the required 6 months of training on SRWP, plus my vested interests get in the way of my thinking straight, and sometimes I lie awake at night terrified that there's an SRWP climber under the bed... but maybe I also have a little point in there somewhere?

 

Imagine a climber with two branches to go out on and weight reduce before carrying on through the tree. Both are long and skinny: challenging branch walks, and the one he's standing on is 2m lower than the other.

 

There are a myriad ways to do this, but at heart, SRWP offers a choice between doing the branch walks by installing a 3:1 (or whatever) at some point (energy efficient; discontinuous, reduces flow) or not (smooth but not energy efficient when coming in at the tips). Equally, the 2m ascent can be done with ascenders/pantin/footlocking etc (to various degrees energy efficient but discontinuous) or without (much harder work than DdRT.)

 

(Sure someone will point out that you can install a redirect in the top branch and do the lower one off that... yes... then you've got to pull out the redirect before carrying on through the tree)

 

These are not controversial points, nor hard to understand. Are we not allowed to criticize SRWP at all? I find it hard to believe that it is faster, smoother, more energy efficient, more continuous, has no problems at all and may also be the solution to world hunger and global warming. Cynical I know.

 

This started off as an SJ thread. As you guys may know, I'm an SJ fan, but I'd be the first to admit to some of the drawbacks, and I have regularly stated that the SJ is not for everyone, nor for every style of climbing. What's so surprising about saying the same thing about SRWP?

 

I've been to comps where a significant proportion of climbers were on SRWP, and I look forward to more in the future. I'm quite confident that more and more devices and techniques will meet with approval and become part of the competition scene. Kevin, I think I would find what you said easier to believe if it were more balanced: at the last ITCC masters, depending on the order one did the tree, one station would have been much easier on SRWP (no need to install a midline), one or two about the same, and one more difficult (tricky plumb-bob without 3:1 or similar), plus the possible issue with moving high points whilst leaving a rescue line, depending on how you did it. Surely that is as clear to you as it is to me? And some work climbs would really suit SRWP, some not so much, some definitely suit DdRT. I've been to two comps where SRWP was allowed... and neither the work climb nor the masters were won on it. This proves nothing, just like stories about other comps where the opposite was true.

 

As for the fluency and smoothness thing... like Matt said, how hard is it to post a video?

Edited September 26, 2012 by joe into trees

[MOG]

Have a look at his srt traverse thread, what more do you want lol, my argument isn't Ddrt vs SRT but more that i have found a new system and i'll never go back to Ddrt but to be come comfortable and semi proficient with SRT it has taken a fair while and ALOT of trial and error lol

 

yeah bro, i am in the same boat but the thing is people saying its smoother and faster??? hmmm. i think i set up that traverse you are talking about in Auckland Domain many years ago on DRT. there was me, drew and johno i think if my memory is right. anyways i dont think that shows it as cool as it is. So still waiting...... haha joe getting proper into it, hope your well dude and looking after my brother.

 

mog

[kevin bingham]

I never employ a three to one in any of my climbs it is an option but i cant remember the last time I used it. I hardly ever climb with a pantin or ascenders either.. I do read through forums looking for information on SRT climbing.

 

I also would like to go to competitions and show people a smooth and fast work climb. You obviously haven't seen it and you seem perfectly content going of to ddrt comps (set up by ddrt climbers) and climbing amongst yourselves. Come to a true comp , stop moaning about how you cant come back from a limb walk. I love competitions, from soccer to basketball and anything else.

I'm always down for a conversation but unless there is a forum in the trees were we can resolve these issues its a mute point. I am in a position as are all other SRT climbers at the moment and look at any comp without SRT and say "yeah well asterix" Its a good place to argue from really.

And its not like SRT is new with the rope wrench. The unicender and others have been around for years. The fate revolver was not my invention, nor the kong robot. So until that point when you either come to charlotte and get a tutorial, or the other comps get with it all we can do is bicker on the internet.

[kevin bingham]

The comps really do not measure a climber or a styole but they are a starting point. I personally love to talkshit in a competition setting because there is notheing personal in that arena. I go out and play ball with my boys and half the time we nearly end up in fistfights over the rules. So believe me that I am entering this conversation on a competition basis. Others not so much. You have got my competitive nature out and I want to show you a good climb. I will be the first to admit I have been smoked in a masters climb by a ddrt climber while I was on SRT. Back to DMC's point that its not the system that makes a climber smooth. Sadly I wont be in Toronto. I tried to pull off a ddrt masters in Michigan and got confused. To much dicking around gear and BS.

[kevin bingham]

I posted sam coopers facebook video on my facebook page. I cant seem to upload it onto arbtalk. It is a camera phone video. There are the videos on my youtube page of me just climbing.

[DrewB]

Geez, I only climbed that traverse srt to see what it was like on comparison! One thing of note was that to do that drt would of meant reanxhoring 3x and getting back to the start would of been a lot harder.

I've asked if I could do my last 2 comps srt but haven't been allowed- still yet to be given a good and reasonable answer. In the rescue I feel it's a lot safer due to no changeovers of system- twice I've been tech and seen people completely disconnect from all systems due to panic and adrenaline. Surely that's a major safety issue? One thing I've noticed is that a climber on srt will lOok at and climb the tree completely diff to a drt climber- not saying either is better but until you've spent a long time on each I'm not sure it's easy to compare. For me i see srt climbing as akin to lead climbing on rock, the ability to set a lot redis/anchors maybe not quicker but does limit possibility of falls swings and this in turn can enable a climber to climb more efficiently. But anyway back to that spiderjack.......

Edited September 26, 2012 by DrewB
Cus I can....

[skip]

hey man give kevin a break, its a well understood psycolgical phenominum that people who beleive they have benifited from something that others could benifit from that they will try to inform others to allow them to reap the benifits also!!!

 

we see this everywhere in life from purchasing car insurance, avoiding taxes, changing our diet, buying a certain brand of car, having kids, not having kids HELL the list is endless!!!

 

We are allk made diferently, i have been training people willing to pay good money to learn new climbing & rigging techniques for many years now and was the first person in the UK to train people on the uni (back when it was silver might i add!) and on the wrench.

 

Many arb's struggle with the new co-ordination patterns asociated with frog walking which, ironicly, many non-climber find far more natural than body thrusting! arbs develop a 'climb reflex' just as most humans have a dive reflex (the phonomemum of holding your breath for longer providing your face is submerged in water) in part the success of the wrench taps into the 'hitch reflex' that most arbs also possess, many arbs (kevin included) are scheptical of "shiny expensive gadgets" he feels comfortable with hitches as do most arbs, it's what we learn on! that said some of the people on our courses are instantly converted they go and buy a wrench or a uni and begin to convert from ddrt to srt

 

kevin is a passinate guy who has devoted a huge portion of his life into developing a tool to aid SRT climbing, when kevin first climbed SRT he did all sorts of things that most arbs dont have the bottle to do let alone posses the skill or knowledge!!!

 

I can see the huge benifits of SRT that does not mean that i climb on it all the time or have the desire to, as it goes sometimes i do, sometimes i dont, it takes most people many non-prductive sessions to 'aclimatise' to srt and it's not allways easy, some pick it up quicker than others.

 

Many people who take the time & effort to become efficient in SRWP will swear by it, it will up their productivity and (depening on their technique!!!) will save teir body's Many other will choose to stick with their ddrt or even go back to ddrt after a stint of srt

 

I remember when i bought my tree motion, for 17 days i adjusted & adjusted it to try & get it comfy & one day in the pouring rain up an ash tree next to some 33kv i was ready to thow it out!! the next day i made the final adjustments that made it perfect, i had also organically changed my posture when sitting/ hanging in the harness to make it comfy, man am i glad i didn't put it on ebay! I'd recomend that harness to ANYONE & EVERYONE! id tell them to persevere if they find it un-comfy but i'm sure there's some who are perhaps a different build to me, or do a different type of work and the tree motion just wouldn't be the best harness for them

 

just remember Kevin isn't motivated to bang on about srt by greed or stubourness he loves SRT and he wants us all to benifit from it!!!! that's why he is so vocal, and having spent hourssssss! on the phone to kevin i can vouch that he is a real genuine guy with no perverse insentive to miss-sell srt. But kevin remember that for some people, no matter how hard they try srt will never quite fit right, they may be more comfortable and/or productive back on their Ddrt.

 

Its good to see that people are sooo pasionate about components of our industry but lets let each to their own guys, as our bro drew said back to the spiderjack........