Quarter Sawing Oak

[nantmoel]

Hi

 

All these winds have brought down quite a large Oak, I need to see the owner of the woods but I might be able to convince him to let me 'plank' some of it. My question is have anyone here ever quarter saw any Oak with an Alaskan Mill, if so how did you go about it.

 

Brian

[agg221]

Yes, but it's wasteful. How large is large? I note that you have a 36" mill, so assuming you also have a 36" roller-nose bar, that gives you a maximum of about 30" if you take the dogs off.

 

If the heartwood is not much over 30", pick two opposite sides that are fairly straight, roll one upwards, skim it off to 15" from the centre, roll the log so it's lying on the side you've just cut and do the same. Then roll it upright and you have a 30" wide cant.

 

Skim the top off again, but this time just to lose the bark and so the cut runs end to end (not necessarily in heartwood throughout), parallel to the centreline (measure up from the centreline at the thin end and set to that) to give you a flat surface. Set the mill to maximum depth and make a cut with no rail. Remove the D-shaped bit, then plank down to the centre, then just beyond, following the standard 'cross' type quartersawing pattern.

 

You now have two D-shaped bits left. Prop one up on edge so the sawn face is vertical. Skim the top (parallel to the heart centreline as before) and repeat the above process. The corner bits which are left can, in theory, be set diagonally and quartered, but to be honest I'd leave them as thicker section blocks or non-quartered planks.

 

If the butt is significantly over the size of the mill, say 40" or more of heartwood at the narrow end, it's easier to take the mill off and freehand it with the saw into quarters, then set the rails up on the face and true it up Don't try to skim it true, go to skim depth (deepest dent) plus one plank, then flip it over and mill one plank thick to true it from the other side - otherwise you'll almost certainly hit your rail mounting screws. Even with the dogs on you can get through 78" with a 36" bar. If it's bigger than that, you need a bigger saw!

 

Alec

[agg221]

Hi Jonathan,

 

Didn't make sense as in wouldn't do it that way, or as in don't understand what I'm on about?

 

Alec

[nantmoel]

Thanks for the reply's - they do make sense to me (really), I have a 44" double ended bar with the 'helper handle' and this really works a treat.

 

Need to see the landowner before the dull bugger cuts it up for logs!

[Rob D]

I think you'd need some diagrams to demonstrate it!

 

The mini mill is a good tool to use in conjunction with the Alaskan for quarter sawing... I did a beach and here are some pics but I think it would take a few goes to perfect.

 

It does give you much more stable timber.

 

 

I've done a bit of quarter sawing now and it's not that bad with a chainsaw mill - but on the proviso your planking to 2"+.... it's not that wasteful.... couple of pics below but didn't have time to take any more.... The next time I have a better plan of how to do it.....

 

Jon I would have thought your new shiny woodmeiser would be ideal for quarter sawing?

 

Quarter up the log. Load a quarter onto your mill. Take a plank off the bottom, roll the quarter onto the other flat edge. Take another plank. Roll it back etc. No need to change the height the band cuts at. You're too used to sitting in your comfy seat I expect these days

 

It's something to look into as wide boards are great but no where near as stable as quarter sawn.

[agg221]

OK, I'll give it another go, but if it's no better I'll just go and drink some more wine instead

 

I was working on the assumption that this isn't pro milling, so firstly it's about getting it done with a 36" mill and a not very big saw (I have to admit I don't recognise Husky numbers, but I would know a 3120 and there isn't one in the OP's sig.). As such, it's more likely to be own-use than sale, and definitely air-dried rather than kilned. I've always found the sapwood on oak to be extremely vulnerable to decay when seasoned this way, so treat it as sacrificial. As such, if you have to lose it to mill the butt then it doesn't matter - it would only fall off or get eaten by woodworm later.

 

What I was trying to describe was how to cut a log in quarters when it's wider and deeper than the mill allows. The standard Alaskan has a maximum depth of 13". The maximum likely width is 30" on the set-up in the OP's sig. so the biggest you can do straight into quarters is a 26" butt, except that by the time you've run rails over the top it's more like 22". This is governed by the depth of the throat of the mill, not the width.

 

If the butt isn't too far over 30" wide I reckon it's worth sacrificing the edges (again, assuming it's for own use this would be waney or be sapwood that would drop off later anyway, so it's no great loss). It also only sacrifices the edges on the very middle bit.

 

Correction to the above is that he has a 44" bar, so rather than needing to take it down to a 30" cant it's a 36" cant.

 

The first point I was trying to make was to take all dimensions out from the centre rather than from the edge, so that all cuts run parallel to the pith line.

 

The first thing I was describing was making a 30" wide cant (now read 36"), so it's as wide as the mill can handle. The second thing was that by skimming the top of the cant so the cut runs all the way along, you don't need to run over guide rails, so you can take a full 13" depth out (throat being limiting here). What's left is a little over half the log, but close enough that if you make the next cut through the pith, the board you've just taken off is quartersawn. If that's a bit thick, you could take two boards to the pith. You can then take another board (or two) off the same, also quartersawn, from the other half of the log, ending up with the top 13" thick 'D' and the bottom 'D' which is a little bit thicker, as you didn't skim it straight.

 

The picture I'm after is Trollspiel's in this thread:

 

http://arbtalk.co.uk/forum/milling-forum/41065-1-4-sawing.html

 

It's the cutting pattern in the bottom half of the diagram I'm referring to, so you roll the 'D' bits up on edge, so the cut face is vertical, and do the same process again, to create quarters.

 

Freehanding is far harder I agree, but it's not impossible if you snap a chalkline down the length and then mark it in well; then run it across the end, through the centre. If you run a very shallow cut in on the end, then gradually angle back to about 45 degrees the bar is running mostly in the existing cut which works as a guide. It's not perfect, but it can be trued up without losing more than half an inch or so even if you're not that good. To illustrate how accurate this can be, it's not milling or chainsaw work, but I had to split some 2.5" thick, 2'6" wide elm boards in half to yield two 1" thick boards and did them with a hand saw this way. They were 6'6" long and came out flat enough that a single pass through the thicknesser left them flat.

 

Oh and is it worth it? I agree with you entirely that it's very rarely worth it. Commercially, almost never. But, if you've got a project in mind it might be. When I find a suitable couple of brown oak butts, 10' and 14' long, I will be quarter sawing floorboards for my living room, because I can and because they will look stunning.

 

Does this make it any clearer, or do I just reach for the bottle (cheers!)

 

Alec

Edited April 29, 2012 by agg221

[agg221]

I did one once with a fully hydraulic bandmill. It took us the best part of a day to do a butt slightly over 2'dia x 14' length, with a very practiced operator (not me!). It hasn't put me off ever doing it again, but you would need to have a very good reason. We did a lot of slightly dodgy wedging and clamping to hold it, using offcuts.

 

I haven't come across the mill extensions - I'll have to have a look as they sound like a very good idea, particularly now I have a big enough saw (090 - bought but haven't got yet) to drive the thing through wide enough butts to make it worth it.

 

Alec

[Rob D]

Ah - thanks for explaining as I thought a bandsaw would be ideal quarter sawing....

 

 

But I do think it's possible to do practically with combo of mini mill and Alaskan! But not really for anything less than 36" butts and boards no thinner than 2".

 

Ref the longer uprights they're good for halving the log....

 

I'd like to figure out a way of guaranteed halving it through the middle so if there is a taper to the log the mill follows the pith all the way down....

 

I sort of have a couple of ideas either - have the ladder independent of the log. Or a way of attaching ladder so that the supports come out from the log at each end exactly the same height from the center at each end....

 

 

.....hard to explain I'll put some pics up when I've had a crack at it!

[agg221]

I use the same method as Big J. I'm using the guide rail and end clamps from Ripsaw and they're excellent for this as they're very adjustable and rigid (also come apart in 5' sections which is handy for transporting). I reckon on being centred on the pith at both ends, with the bar running right through the middle within less than an eighth of an inch. Of course the pith wanders around more than that down the line, but it's a good true starting point.

 

I've been doing some true quartering of feather edge, straight from the half log, and the portable bandsaw has been excellent for this.

 

Alec

[nantmoel]

Again thanks for all the very informative replies. Well I been to see the landowner and he was please that it can be cut into boards and not go for firewood - offered him some of the sawn boards as payment!

 

I measured the tree tonight and its 2 ft- 2 1/2 ft in dia and there's not a branch for 40', plus loads of other useable wood after that. I have decided that I'm not going to quarter it, I'll just plank it perhaps up to 2 1/2" with some 1 1/2" boards. I'll also cut some of the more interesting bits for my bowl turning.

Its a shame no one locally is looking for a really long oak beam! I'll have to post some pictures of my progress over the next few weeks. I need to get a spare chain for the 44" bar, a call to Rob in the morning as I can't seem to find one on-line on his site.

Edited April 30, 2012 by nantmoel