phaeolus on radiata

[gibbon]

Not really talking about that tree tony, its hard to make a call on a few photos. I just want to know if anyone knows of a mature, singled stemmed one failing? I've seen Scots pines and multi stemmed Monterey collapse but not in a single stemmed tree. They always seem to have bold stem taper and a mass of large surface roots.

 

The truly knackered ones usually have either a very sparse crown or have shed large pieces from the upper crown, leaving them rather bottom heavy and unlikely to topple

Edited December 17, 2011 by gibbon

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Not really talking about that tree tony, its hard to make a call on a few photos. I just want to know if anyone knows of a mature, singled stemmed one failing? I've seen Scots pines and multi stemmed Monterey collapse but not in a single stemmed tree. They always seem to have bold stem taper and a mass of large surface roots.

 

The truly knackered ones usually have either a very sparse crown or have shed large pieces from the upper crown, leaving them rather bottom heavy and unlikely to topple

 

Not a species ive had the pleasure of seeing through its natural life cycle, interesting:thumbup:

[arbmark]

Not really talking about that tree tony, its hard to make a call on a few photos. I just want to know if anyone knows of a mature, singled stemmed one failing? I've seen Scots pines and multi stemmed Monterey collapse but not in a single stemmed tree. They always seem to have bold stem taper and a mass of large surface roots.

 

The truly knackered ones usually have either a very sparse crown or have shed large pieces from the upper crown, leaving them rather bottom heavy and unlikely to topple

 

i should perhaps say that i believe the consultant is aware of the infection but has said that there is nothing that needs to be done by surgery. he is a man of considerable experience in these things.

 

yes indeed as gibbon says this is what gives the tree hope really - i dont think there are many cases of them failing and i am thinking some small amount of work is justified to reduce branch tip weights... It doesnt want to lose any more primary branches. It has lost a not unappreciable amount of the original crown and it wouldnt want to have it its ability to function impaired. thoughts welcome on this.....

 

I think David will have to wait for the autopsy snaps:biggrin:

 

Baring in mind Gerrit's words, it probably needs gently managing into retirement, like me but with less prospect of having to do up houses...!!!

 

If anyone out there has any experience of phaeolus bringing down a monterey, now is your moment to pipe up!!!!

 

thanks guys, Mark

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

i should perhaps say that i believe the consultant is aware of the infection but has said that there is nothing that needs to be done by surgery. he is a man of considerable experience in these things.

 

yes indeed as gibbon says this is what gives the tree hope really - i dont think there are many cases of them failing and i am thinking some small amount of work is justified to reduce branch tip weights... It doesnt want to lose any more primary branches. It has lost a not unappreciable amount of the original crown and it wouldnt want to have it its ability to function impaired. thoughts welcome on this.....

 

I think David will have to wait for the autopsy snaps:biggrin:

 

Baring in mind Gerrit's words, it probably needs gently managing into retirement, like me but with less prospect of having to do up houses...!!!

 

If anyone out there has any experience of phaeolus bringing down a monterey, now is your moment to pipe up!!!!

 

thanks guys, Mark

 

Phaeolus would have nigh bother taking down a monterey

[arbmark]

Phaeolus would have nigh bother taking down a monterey

 

aye but have ye seen it hama?!? i take it you think it should go. Cons Area, near a pub etc etc... Is incremental trunk growth going to guarantee the strength of the woody cylinder? It wont be happening all the way round. And we are back to the buckling v inc. growth thing.....

I have told the owner ( who i have given this link) that i think a second opinion is necessary.....

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

aye but have ye seen it hama?!? i take it you think it should go. Cons Area, near a pub etc etc... Is incremental trunk growth going to guarantee the strength of the woody cylinder? It wont be happening all the way round. And we are back to the buckling v inc. growth thing.....

I have told the owner ( who i have given this link) that i think a second opinion is necessary.....

 

No i do not think a fell is waranted at this stage, but as always were only going on photos, not stood by the tree, although the images are excelent and very communicative:thumbup1:

 

I think it would be a great shame to remove it, I think its doing the best it can in the face of certain adversity, the conspiring forces of nature to bring down the "sugar daddy" (gerrit keizer) and adress the balance of nature and the carbon cycle.

 

What goes up must come down, that is the nature of all things, but we often find life defies and adapts and morphs in order to bend like a reed in the wind and go on, defiant.

 

i would always look to options with fells as a VERY last resort

[Red]

Its a difficult one, these Pines do not have a high rate of failure but if your the one under or within falling distance its small comfort. I think if the owners could stump up the £200-250 then a Picus Tomograph with report could be the solution, it would be a shame to take a mature one down when there may be no cause for concern.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

and A picus will tell you what some of us already know because of the body language of both the tree and the fruiting of phaeolus in a very particular place.

 

Lets do this and discuss the potential. can a tinker with the image for a mo? two secs.

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

So lets look at the features of this case and look/interpret the body languages:001_cool:

 

1) are straight lines in bark plates indicating a tension stress and like paint on a stick when bent is cracking, that is a classic symptom of tube mechanics under extreme loads.

 

3) are fibre buckles indicating extreme compression forces in tube mechanics, in this case the pressure of the load from both wind and mass of tree above the decay is bearing down on a diminishing wall (T/R is approaching limits beyond accepted VTA criteria) (mattheck)

 

Now is the decay "compartmentalised" and if it is, how strong is the capacity of the decay organism to breach that compartment?

 

4) is a column of totaly dead dysfunctional wood which including all wood within the stem has now apparently been (for now) compertmentalised and the tree is forming new growth at its periphery to enclose and seal not heal the zone.

 

2) sporocarp is fruiting at the point of aeration on dysfunctional tissues as a posed to fruiting through a bark breach which indicates much more aggressive attack of the remaining residual wall tissues. something we may see in our native pinus sylvestris for example.

 

However as gerrit eludes too, there is a blackening of bark iether side of the dysfunctional wood which indicates a secondary colonisation and possibly progressive death of the cambium that is forming the occlusion via most likely Armillaria ostoyea the conifer version of the armillarias and a strong pathogen.

 

Picus will only confirm what we know from the images and body languages, and at this stage where it is close to being negativley assesed and therefore felled it is reasonable to use a much cheaper tool the increment core to elucidate the true physical properties of the remaining wood and the extent of decay (T/R)

 

[arbmark]

awesome stuff hama thankyou - i can learn a lot from this. its help like this that makes arbtalk such a useful tool to all users. doing a professional tree survey course soon. i cant wait!!!!!!!!