Thermal Imaging Camera's

[BatiArb]

I am sorry you think i am ignorant of the technique, i just dont see any of my domestic, commercial or LA clients willing to spend money on it.

 

 

This is your loss at the end of the day.

 

We now have a very healthy client list which includes repeat users of the technology in both private and public sectors.

 

Our prices are very competitive and our quotes are regularly accepted by return, so I see no reason why you should be sceptical of your own client’s willingness to pay for the kind of visual assessment thermal imaging can provide.

 

Yes it is entirely possible for a well informed arborist to use a Nylon Hammer and VTA to assist with the evaluation of a tree and produce an inspection report that expresses an opinion on tree condition. However, it will only ever be a personal opinion expressed in words.

 

Our clients like the factual presentation of the thermal image that supports the arboricultural opinion and provides visual evidence that is easy to understand. This is the added value which it offers.

[Amelanchier]

Thermal Imaging works by using the movement of heat as a tool to observe areas of functional tissue. The simple principle is that heat moves through water filled cells with good conductivity (connectivity) between them. It is therefore not a decay detection device.

 

Areas (volumes) of wood without water, or where cavities/splits have formed, trap heat. Air is a poor conductor of heat in comparison to water, and air filled areas appear relatively hotter or colder than where heat is moving around the tree in functional tissue. Therefore by observing the different areas of temperature around the tree and the heat gradients between them it is possible to estimate volumes of functional verses dysfunctional areas of the tree.

 

So cavitation in the vascular tissue results in a 'difference' in the local temperature? But the camera only measures the external temperature - the emissivity - so the cause must be inferred. Historic internal cavitation may absorb some heat from functional external tissues but how do you distinguish this from more recent dysfunctionality?

[Amelanchier]

However, it will only ever be a personal opinion expressed in words.

 

Even with the eye candy, that's all any report is. Isn't it?

[BatiArb]

Andrew, could you explain why the market has been totally saturated with trained users, i myself was invited on a course at the begining with the promise that it would be exclusive to a region.

 

 

 

I am not sure why you get the impression the market is being saturated.

 

There has to be an effective educational program in place to support the progress of this technology. This forum discussion is a classic example of why this is necessary. The biggest issue with the progress of any technology is the lack of education that goes along with it.

 

It is essential that more and more people are offered the chance to learn about thermal imaging and understand how it can be used to assess trees. Some may choose to go on an use it commercially, but others will not. However, the important thing is that by attending one of the courses they are in a position to understand how the technology can be used effectively.

 

Learning to use thermal imaging and the visual temperature reading provided by the accompanying images is very much like learning a new language and understanding how it can be translated.

 

The thermal image provides us with very factual information about the trees temperature. The experienced thermographer like Giorgio Catena can translate this information and use it to make informed judgements about the trees functional condition. Arborists without a thermographic background can be assisted by calibration tools such as the TTMS (Tree Thermal Matrix Software).

 

Regardless of how you approach any new tool or technology training in its use and application is essential. This should be obvious from the mistakes made by the early marketing of PICUS, that was rolled out onto an inexperienced and naive arboricultural audience that misused and misunderstood the results of the Tomographs produced in a way that caused the demise of many health trees.

 

Training and Education are Essential. Continued Professional Development is Mandatory…..

[BatiArb]

So cavitation in the vascular tissue results in a 'difference' in the local temperature? ?

 

Yes, and this is wat is observed by the camera at the time of imaging.

[BatiArb]

But the camera only measures the external temperature - the emissivity - so the cause must be inferred. Historic internal cavitation may absorb some heat from functional external tissues but how do you distinguish this from more recent dysfunctionality?

 

 

The external temperature or emissivity of the tree is directly related to the internal movement of heat.

 

We use observations of heat movement through the tree as a tool. Functional heat flow is directly related to healthy tissue within the tree.

 

The observations are of the current condition of the tree, regardless of whether dysfunction is historic or not. In this way it is possible to identify recently senesced or drought stressed trees. Unlike decay detection devices thermal imaging does not require the wood to become degraded in anyway before it can be identified.

 

Thermal imaging is used to identify the ability of the tree (wood) to hold water and transport it within functional tissues.

[Arborist Sites]

Are we trying to look too far and be too technical ?

 

As in a different thread the question is do we over estimate our importance as arboriculturalists, i think so looking at this afterall a tree is a tree and they are only generally considered if they are a hazard or in the way of a project, people will always look for a hassle free way to manage them and importantly the cheapest option, i often get called up by jo bloggs and if i can way up that what they want is me to go on site and say yes chop down your tree i will just ring a on tools chap and send them around to cut out my fees as its a waste of their money. Thats the way i operate, i have alot of large clients and they like my no messing approach and i couldnt go to them with this Thermal Imaging idea and suggest it as a financially viable solution.

 

BatiArb Stated

However, it will only ever be a personal opinion expressed in words.

 

Tony beat me to it, you are relying on many variables and at the end of the day from what you and Marcus told me i would be on the ground and then send the images to you to assess, way to many variables, you are relying on me to do the job right, i am relying on you to do your part right, have i managed to jot down all the variables needed about weather conditions correctly, site conditions, is the equipment working properly, have i set it up properly etc etc.

 

Speaking to a number of LA's and other consultants they have been dratically put off by the Sam Corngrass affair........

 

Then we add the price of the Equipment, i cant see how the end user could make a profit unless they are out doing the job 5 days a week, maybe itr was viable with the expression to me that i would be the only chap in my area to use it but that has changed

 

Ok, i will bow out of this discussion as i dont see it will ever be viable, a bit like the Picus.

 

Good luck though Andrew with this i hope you prove me wrong and make it a success, afterall i know how hard it is to make new ideas and businesses to work at the moment.

 

Knowledge, Commitment & Hard graft.

[woodworm]

Hi, going off on a bit of a tangent, but can anyone tell me whether a tic would pick up a mole under my lawn.Its driving me mad and I have been thinking about this for quite a long time. If i could locate the little critter, I could blow his brains out:BoomSmilie_anim:

[Tony Croft aka hamadryad]

Hi, going off on a bit of a tangent, but can anyone tell me whether a tic would pick up a mole under my lawn.Its driving me mad and I have been thinking about this for quite a long time. If i could locate the little critter, I could blow his brains out:BoomSmilie_anim:

 

Personaly I like the old mole, hard working little critter and cute as a button.

[BootyArb]

Even with the eye candy, that's all any report is. Isn't it?

 

Oh come on it is the eye candy that makes all the difference…..

 

The visual image is very useful at providing an explanation for people who find it hard to understand the arboricultural jargon.

 

There is also a big issue with acceptance of one person’s unsupported opinion. A member of the public without a full understanding of trees will be naturally skeptical of the opinion of an arborist whose business is dependant on cutting trees down. In other words they expect a certain amount of bull ****.

 

Seeing is believing at the end of the day and a picture tells a thousand words…….